posted on January 11, 2013 00:00
RIP John Noveske - Noveske Rifleworks AR15
by Mike Kojima
A few days ago, this week, John Noveske, founder and owner of Noveske Rifleworks was killed in a tragic car accident near his Grants Pass Oregon home. In honor of John's memory we thought we would feature one of his creations. Noveske Rifleworks is known as the producers of some of the highest quality AR15 pattern rifles in the country.
Don't worry we won't be turning MotoIQ into Guns and Ammo online but since our previous story on our Ruger 1022 was so well received and we had requests for more stories on bigger stuff, here we are. We would also like to show that a California Compliant AR15 is not an "Assault Rifle" that is popular to vilify in the media nowadays but a really good overall rifle that does well on the range target shooting, in other sporting contests like 3 gun matches, hunting and for home defense although its capability is limited in this respect to comply with state law.
|Our gun is based off of a Noveske Light Recce model. This piece was designed by Noveske to be light and easy to handle compared to other AR15 models without sacrificing accuracy or durability. The rifle is loosely based off of the M4 carbine used by our military. Of course civilian models are not fully automatic like the media might lead you to believe. The Noveske uses a 16' barrel which seems short but testing has shown that this length does not affect accuracy and has only a small effect on velocity and maximum range.
|The basic design of the AR15 is inherently very accurate, one of the main reasons why it has endeared itself as an excellent rifle for sporting use. The gun's internal gas system takes cyclic stress and vibrations that affect accuracy out of the barrel. This design makes it possible to build an AR15 that is as accurate as a fine bolt action target rifle. Its military proven ruggedness makes it less finicky and fragile than traditional sporting rifles, good for action shooting competition or hunting in rugged conditions. These are good answers why people want AR's contrary to the popular media declaring that no one needs an AR15.
|The Noveske lower receiver is forged from 7075 T6 alloy and is reinforced and thicker in some areas compared to a typical AR15. This additional stiffness helps accuracy as well as durability. The monolithic trigger housing is much different than the typical military pattern two piece trigger guard and is way stronger. Noveske uses a Vltor upper receiver which is also more rigid than standard parts. The plunger on the upper receiver is the forward assist device which can be used to close the bolt on a dirty and sticky gun. To comply with California law, the typical AR15 magazine release button has been deactivated and the magazine cannot be removed from the gun without a special tool. This prevent fast magazine reloads. This makes the gun much less capable of rapid fire.
|Noveske uses a medium contour barrel which is lighter than typical sporting or target heavy barrels or the military contour which has a skinny area to accommodate a grenade launcher. Since most of us don't need a grenade launcher, Noveske made this area thicker and stiffer while keeping a slim contour on the rest of the barrel. The result is a lighter yet stiffer barrel for greater accuracy. The barrel is hammer cold forged from 4150 chromoly with a thick chrome lining for a longer life. The hammer forging improves the material grain size and flow direction for superior strength, durability and accuracy.
|The Noveske handguard is CNC machined from billet 7075 aluminum. The handguard has a large heatsink by the chamber to reduce the likelihood of heat damage and to extend barrel life. The handguard also floats the barrel to keeps stress off of it which greatly improves accuracy.
Friday, January 11, 2013 12:44 AM
That sucks. My sympathies for his family and friends.
I've always wanted one of his masterpieces. Hopefully better judgement prevails and we don't lose the freedom to appreciate fine workmanship like this.
Friday, January 11, 2013 7:55 AM
Truly a beautiful piece of equipment. His family and friends have our condolences.
And I must say, it makes me smile a little on the inside to see some of the satire in the article. Unlike a certain other car website owned by a highly liberal media company you guys actually seem to "get" the insanity that is California's gun laws.
Friday, January 11, 2013 9:57 AM
I think I see a "shoulder thing that goes up". Better call Carolyn McCarthy!
Friday, January 11, 2013 11:56 AM
Let me get this straight, MotoIQ; (meaning absolutely NO disrespect to John Noveske or his family) you do an article on a gunsmith who dies and NOT an article on Carroll Shelby? I mean seriously.
And not to open up a can of worms with this whole gun control debate, but c'mon. LOOK AT THIS THING! You can truly sit there, straight faced, and tell me that someone needs this to go hunting? Are you fucking kidding me. NOBODY NEEDS THESE THINGS AND THE FASTER THEY STOP MAKING THEM (nobody is going to take away your guns you freaks) the better off we will be. The gov't isnt trying to disarm us as there are over 300 MILLION guns already in the US. And anybody who thinks that "the gov't should be afraid of its people not the other way around" is an absolute idiot. You think some M4's are going to stop a fucking Abrams tank or a fucking Apache?? you are high. You're going hunting with an AR15? FOR WHAT Polar bears? Bigfoot? Whales? "drugs are illegal and people still use those". So what we should just throw up our arms and say fuck it? Just give up and let people shoot eachother because its too hard to enforce? "drunk driving kills people too so we should ban cars too". Yeah its called cracking down on it. Through anti drunk driving campaigns (SADD, MADD, etc) we have cut drunk driving related deaths by 64% since 1982!!!! thats how we fix this problem. And I'll be the first one to agree that we need mental health fixes as well. But these things cannot continue to happen because this country is obsessed with guns.
Friday, January 11, 2013 12:45 PM
Thank you for your opinion. Not be be disrespectful but it is obvious that you don't know much about guns or particularly this type of gun. I would not expect you to neither would I expect some people in the media or our lawmakers unfortunately.
An AR15 fires an intermediate type cartridge which is not particularly powerful, in fact it is illegal to hunt larger animals, even deer with it in some areas. It is a good cartridge for smaller game and in fact a pretty popular one for small game. It would be really bad and probably illegal to try to shoot a polar bear or a whale with this.
In California and probably nation wide soon, it must be converted to a fixed magazine that cannot be removed without tools or quick changed much like a sporting rifle. In California and probably nation wide soon the magazine or feeding device will be limited to 10 shots. So you have a 10 shot, slow to reload rifle, like a typical sporting rifle, the Browning BAR comes to mind and that even packs a more powerful and deadly round.
The AR's main advantages then for sporting use are it's good accuracy and durability. If you ever go hunting in the rain or humidity and your wood stock swells up and changes your point of aim by several inches you would know. You would also be pissed if your nicely polished and blued finish on your sporter started to rust which polished bluing will do in the field. Also creeping rust under the stock, in the bore and action will mess up your conventional sporting gun if it is not quickly are carefully cared for after some hard use.
The AR can be changed around from an action sports shooting gun, to a hunting gun to a target gun quickly by just adding and subtracting parts taking the place of 3 or more guns.
So the AR is a good gun for the shooting hobbiest and in legal form is not much more dangerous than many conventional guns. It is not a machine gun nor a particularly good paramiltary weapon in legal form.
So I probably won't change your opinion but maybe I explained to you in a no BS way that you can understand how an AR15 in legal trim is not what the media says it it and how it is a legitimate sporting arm. It is one of the reasons why they are so popular.
We did do something about Carrol Shelby but we posted it on our facebook page and not here because there was so much general media about his death.
This was the first negative comment we have gotten on a firesarms story and perhaps that's because its sorta fashionable now to be anti gun. Most of our readers like this stuff. It's about precision high tech machinery afterall.
Friday, January 11, 2013 12:58 PM
@jason.rice "NOBODY NEEDS THESE THINGS AND THE FASTER THEY STOP MAKING THEM (nobody is going to take away your guns you freaks) the better off we will be. "
nobody needs a 638hp corvette zr1 or a 662hp gt500 or a 1000hp bugatti veryon or a street car that laps VIR at so and so time... everyone has their hobby
People buying these guns legally isnt the problem...its the ones stealing them or not securing them properly in their homes that are.
I'm in law enforcement and the hoops that I had to jump through to buy an off duty weapon was insane. I already carry a work, but I had to go through a long ass backround check and everything else that normal people do.
Friday, January 11, 2013 1:19 PM
"And not to open up a can of worms with this whole gun control debate, but c'mon. LOOK AT THIS THING!"
Yea, we judge everything by the way it looks. WHOA look at the body kit on that car, it must be so fast.
The "sinister" look to this firearm is mostly an anticorrosive coating and a good set of sights. The look has nothing to do with the guts of the gun which you seem to have a problem with despite such a lack of information.
Friday, January 11, 2013 1:56 PM
I went with a Noveske recce basic upper in my zombie hunter build. The cold-forged barrel they produce is as good as it gets for accuracy and durability.
Question: did you get the Vltor A5 buffer system to go with that stock and gas tube? It is exceptional in preventing bolt bounce between shots.
Friday, January 11, 2013 2:41 PM
The buffer system is stock Noveske but I think it's heavier than typical. With a mid length gas system i didn't think it was needed.
Friday, January 11, 2013 3:16 PM
Why does an online car enthusiast magazine have articles about guns, especially after all the tragic deaths related to guns in the last year? The wounds are still fresh; this is like adding salt to them. I love this site and go to it daily but I’m sorry; I think this is in bad taste. I am aware and agree that I have no say in your website, but I can choose if I visit it and support the sponsors of it.
Friday, January 11, 2013 4:30 PM
Luke, this online car enthusiast magazine has articles about guns because people like me are interested more than just cars. I also like guns. The fine editors of this webzine have saw fit to expand beyond their normal scope because they have recognized this.
This is not an article about Sandy Hook. This is not an article about tragedy. This is a dedication to a man who created some amazing things and a display of said things. I'm sorry that YOU associate this article with tragedy. Or that YOU associate guns with tragedy. That is a very easy thing to do. If your wounds are still fresh I would suggest that you not read articles like this one. You're not ready for it.
The rest of us who are truly saddened with how this country seems to be spiraling down into some epic crapstorm but can differentiate between abstract concepts will soldier on. Our country's culture has something truly wrong with it. The amount of mass shootings in recent years are indicative of that. You can express yourself about that on a car website. I'll be the one actually talking to people trying to understand just what the problem is in an effort to keep it from happening again. (and I fear it will).
Friday, January 11, 2013 4:53 PM
if as Biden said, it is about saving at least a single life...then ban alcohol.
far more people die from alcohol related crashes than by someone using an "assault weapon". per the CDC about 30 people die everyday in the US due to alcohol related crashes.
I'll say it. the 2nd amendment is NOT about hunting.
Friday, January 11, 2013 5:06 PM
Sure it is. It's about hunting politicians.
Friday, January 11, 2013 5:09 PM
just tyrannical ones.
Friday, January 11, 2013 5:14 PM
I'm of mixed feelings for this article, and it's prompting my first post/comment.
As an Engineer I find the design and development components of this article (and most others) to be very interesting. And if it was left at that I would have no issue with it and it would be a great honorarium to a man's work.
However when you put in lines such as:
Of course civilian models are not fully automatic like the media might lead you to believe...
These are good answers why people want AR's contrary to the popular media declaring that no one needs an AR15...
Hey media, it is much to long to fit in a covert assassins kit or to sneak into a flight!...
Relax, this isn't an evil people killing high capacity magazine...
It changes the meaning of the article, and is not something that I come to this site for, similar to "Luke". And I'm also of the mind that if more articles are with the same tone, I will stop coming to the site an supporting it's sponsors through it's links.
That just leaves one final question, what parts have been or will be WPC treated?
Friday, January 11, 2013 5:24 PM
I'll address a few points here.
1. This is in tribute to a guy not much older than me who passed away.
2. Yes, this is a gun, but the attention to ENGINEERING detail put in it by Noveske is outstanding. This website is about engineering detail.
3. Let's really analyze this gun and throw some logic into this. This AR15 has a 10-round mag capacity that is not a quick change. It fires .223 caliber bullets. A basic Glock 17 (9mm which I assume is 0.354 caliber) comes with a standard 17-round mag with up to an optional 33 round mag. And these mags are very quick to change. So you can get a Glock 17 with over triple the number of rounds, larger caliber bullet, and quick change magazines. So do you think the AR15 or the Glock 17 posses a larger threat?
4. There are really two gun issues that I see: criminals that get them and nutcases that get them. Same and different solutions are required for both. Mass shootings are not typically from criminals, but nut cases.
5. Possible solutions being pushed: ban on high capacity mags, assault weapons, more thorough background checks, getting rid of the gun show loophole, improvement of the mental health system, etc.
I even came up with the idea of requiring licensing to own and operate a gun. Why? Typically getting a license of any type (car, motorcycle, scuba diving, etc) requires training. Requiring training for handling guns would be a good step forward IMO. Plus, it may double up as screening for nut cases.
Me personally? I think we need to take an all of the above strategy. Not only that, but our communities and American culture do NOT teach good values. People would rather make a quick buck than show good examples (i.e. Jersey Shore, Honey booboo, etc.). Heck, all we see on the news is negative stuff. How about we show good things on tv? Like I love watching CNN Heros every year; it's normal people doing extraordinary things helping other people. Why don't we show similar content all the time?
So beyond just gun laws, IMO, we need a sweeping change of our culture (tv/movie/radio content, etc. etc.). We also have a culture here in the US where no one wants to take responsibility for their actions and that needs to change. Part of that is the law system where anyone can sue for anything. So we really need lots of global changes in our society.
Friday, January 11, 2013 6:00 PM
Respect and love to the Noveske in their time of mourning.
spdracerut I couldn't agree with you more regarding the changes we are experiencing in our culture. I feel that we need to focus on rewarding those that do right and stop rewarding the idiots with publicity (or any other type of positive reinforcement). I think kids and now adults want focus more on their self rather than think of the greater good of the community at large.
Friday, January 11, 2013 6:22 PM
RIP Noveske. Great article on the AR15 with the specialize Noveske parts. I got a true understanding of the engineering improvements that enhanced the greater mechanics of the AR15.
This is a free online website, all those complaining can go find another site or just skip the gun articles.
Friday, January 11, 2013 10:24 PM
Anybody here pretending an AR-15 is a regular gun is taking things for granted. There's a reason the military has been using this platform for 40+ years, it TRULY is a superior and versatile weapon. The SAW and 50. cal are unwieldy to a single person, the M203 (tons of fun BTW) is only an add on to the AR-15 platform. The M9 Beretta is a joke and unworthy of comparison. The AR-15 platform and specifically the M4-A4 are in a league of it's own, and given the previous weapons I've mentioned, it's the one weapon I'd want. A 50 or 100 round drum mag (only available through civilian vendors BTW) would also complement the character of the weapon.
Read that last sentence again, it's a military grade weapon and I don't trust a lot of people with it. Nothing else issued to troops comes close to the versatility, ease of use and relative lethality of the AR-15. I'm going to say it again, it truly is an assault weapon. E5 six years service here, fuck you civilians that think you and all your neighbors deserve to be able to own this weapon.
Friday, January 11, 2013 10:49 PM
I feel the need to say one other thing. Maniacs would not be choosing this rifle if they didn't see an advantage. Lately, they haven't been stupid people.
If I have to balance the lives of 20 children and 75 movie patrons and god knows who else VS. your need to feel like John Wayne/Rambo? Fucking make believe heroes and their guns "protecting their livelihoods", give me a break and get a fucking shotgun like every other sane person would do.
I never thought I'd see this shit on this site.
Friday, January 11, 2013 11:32 PM
Emotional rants aside, Our troops are not issued AR15's. The media has led many people to believe that. A legal AR15 is not close a Military M16 or a Military M4 carbine with an M203 Grenade launcher. It is all careful explained in the article. Possession of any of these things is a felony and has been for years.
Making a blanket statement that all people who like these guns are macho Rambo wannabes is about as rational as saying that all people who want to modify cars are lawless street racing killers. Protecting your livelihood is not the same a potentially protecting your life and your families lives.
Friday, January 11, 2013 11:57 PM
You know I never suggested the grenade launcher was a civilian thing. And aside from that, the civilian versions ARE FUNCTIONALLY EXACTLY THE SAME ASIDE FROM BURST FIRE (3 round tap), and nobody uses that shit, it's useless. Automatic fire is useless too, although you'd be hard pressed to find a military issue AR-15 type rifle that does that.
You know what civilians can get in an AR-15 type rifle that military can't? 7.62, .30 cal, .45 cal and .50 cal variants. THAT SHIT IS MODIFIED, and legal. Do an article on that Mike.
Put some Variant 3s on it, some Whiteline sways and bushings, it needs a Pectel ECU, some obscure alignment shop, Howard Watanabe does all our install work for us, Volks really are superior, now that Aaron got some free stuff we support Progress Group.
This is kind of the icing on the cake. What happened to any semblence of journalistic integrity when you only mention your sponsors? "Cause they make the good stuff" Bullshit. I know this isn't your day job mike, but you've fucked MotoIQ and it's sponsors on this.
Thanks for giving me the impetus to voice my opinions.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:18 AM
I liked the article. Well done.
Of course, black rifles don't scare me. At least not nearly as much as the average motorist. Or the number of people around me with access to hammers (which are used in far more murders than all rifles, according to the folks at the FBI who track such things). So, I guess that better helps me avoid the irrational mob mentality tied to black rifles and actually appreciate the article's subject.
RIP Noveske. You did good work.
Will (has sent a link to this article out to a dozen friends who I know will also appreciate it)
Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:40 AM
6 spd, Your opinions are welcome any time and if you don't like this place you are equally welcome not to come here. You are welcome to unfriend me from all social media and please don't ever speak to me in person least I offend you. I really mean that. I do not wish to offend anyone and anyone is free not to listen to me.
This is my day job and I am the majority owner of this site. I don't feel very strongly about the individual right to have guns as a hobby. I do feel very strongly about my individual right to protect my family, American Democracy and the second amendment. This is purely my opinion and not necessarily the opinion of the majority of MotoIQ management, MotoIQ employees, MotoIQ or the corporation as a whole. It is an unpopular stand right now but it is mine. I don't expect many other people to share my opinion but that's ok.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:26 AM
Thanks for the article Mike, I like firearms and cars so this is wonderful :)
Think removing firearms from law abiding citizens (or the ability to purchase said firearms) will stop or curb gun violence? Yeah ask Australia how that's worked out for 'em :) HINT: It didn't.
The bottom line is the weapon itself is not accountable for the actions of the human using it; nor are the law abiding citizens who purchase them. PERIOD. Someone who does this would have just used a pipe bomb, shotgun, or any other readily available device/material to get the job done because they're sick. Remember Columbine? That happened during the original "Assault Weapons Ban" so banning these again will solve nothing save to remove the right of law abiding citizens to own them.
I don't need some snivelling bleeding heart telling me what I do and don't need to own based on their own beliefs, wants, or agendas. I'm a LAW ABIDING citizen who owns and uses these weapons for recreational and training purposes. Why should I have to pay for the crimes of some psycho? I'm actually pretty handy with a blade and there have been lots of stabbings so I suppose we should all be limited to sporks as well right? Give me a break.
I do however think that there should be a more stringent background investigation which could include determining whether or not you or anyone else in your household has a mental issue etc. I think having proof of safe storage should be a must as well and whatnot. I don't mind consenting to these things but again, in the end the weapons are not the problem it's the people behind the triggers and when you remove weapons from the equation you're still left with the person who commits the crime and they can still commit atrocities with or without "black rifles".
Random thoughts: If you think these 50/100 round magazines in anyway increase the effectiveness of an AR-15 platform you've obviously never used them other than in COD perhaps :p
Oh and because we're throwing stuff out there I'm a currently serving armed forces member with experience in two branches a few AFSC's and MOS's, and fifteen plus years time in service.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:46 AM
Bellicose142, If I offended you I am sorry but let me explain. I am not typically sarcastic but I can be very sarcastic sometimes. I was poking fun at our popular media rather strongly in a sarcastic way, not really intending it to have political tone.
However if I offend you please exercise your right to not read or support things I am involved in. I am not being sarcastic, some people find me abrasive and its hard to change in my old age.
Let me restate. Your opinions are welcome any time and if you don't like this place you are equally welcome not to come here. You are welcome to unfriend me from all social media and please don't ever speak to me in person least I offend you. I really mean that. I do not wish to offend anyone and anyone is free not to listen to me. I wont take this personally.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 5:23 AM
My thoughts to the family of John Noveske, it's never good to see such an talent die young.
Ok- I originally joined MotoIQ because of an article on the Nemo Evo and the comments from some of the designers and owner. Being a fan of the whole time attack format and that car in particular (having seen it at Eastern Creek) I found the article and comments the best I had read in all the car media.
I've looked through the "about" section on this website and although I haven't read every word all the contributors info seems to be about their motor vehicle history so I would assume this is a "motor vehicle website".
I found a website, gunsandammodotcom, the people on at website seem to be mostly interested in guns and ammo, sure they might like basket ball and butterfly's and walks on the beach but if I go to their website I expect to see guns and ammo, not articles on the Nemo Evo, wonder why this website doesn't take their idea to heart and stick to car, motorsports and the like.
Sure, mention Mr Noveske, out of the respect. To do a whole article on a military style, if not actual military, weapon seems very strange at any time, but to do it shortly after someone uses something similar to go into a school and shoot a whole lot of 6 and 7 years olds, and not just shoot but riddle their bodies with bullets, seems crazy to the extreme. Sure, express your thoughts, but out of respect to those kids, maybe you could admit this was badly implemented.
And to the comment that removing military style weapons from civilians in Australia didn't work, what do you base this on. As far as I can remember I can't recall a single mass shooting in Australia since. If taking guns "like" this from the public, and maybe one disturbed person, stops just one Port Arthur/numerous American mass shooting than I would consider it a success, I'm sure that any one of those Newtown kids parents would agree.
It might be trite but I feel the saying "Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people" stands true.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 8:04 AM
I personally would prefer not to see guns on Motoiq. I'm not a fan of guns at all. A gun is a tool of destruction as far as I am concerned. That's its sole purpose. I'm not going to get into civil rights discussions. If you like them you like them, you are entitled to your opinion.
Give me more awesome cars. That's what I come here for.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 8:15 AM
Mike, thanks for the direct response.
No, I'm not offended by the article or your stance, you're welcome to both as they are yours. I'm just providing the feedback that the political side of the article (in either direction) is not what I come to this site for, and to make you and the MotoIQ staff aware that there might be repercussions to your readership and associated sales to your industry partners.
I do also find the concept of "positive feedback = write more articles on this topic, negative feedback = don't read it and feel free not to be my friend" an interesting one. I must remember it the next time I go through tech inspection.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:52 AM
I love the hypocritical responses from some of you regarding "needing" a weapon like this. Most everyone is on this website because we love cars and modifying them for specific purposes beyond normal commuting. Nobody "needs" a car with 500 horsepower or tires and suspension capable of over 1g of lateral acceleration but we "want" them because it is our hobby and passion. Your car is statistically more likely to kill me than any AR15. I'm not about to debate with anyone the meaning of the 2nd amendment, it is crystal clear that we as citizens should own and be proficient in the use of common arms such as the AR15 for the defense against tyranny.
There is a very good reason the AR15 variant is one of, if not the most popular sporting firearm "in common use" in America today. It is an efficient, lightweight, and accurate firearm capable of a variety of uses. For those of you that would claim its only purpose is for killing large number of people at one time please realize that the very same "lethality" makes this weapon platform equally useful and effective for self defense and saving lives. So don't tell me or anyone else that a shotgun or handgun is "good enough" because it isn't. Some common sense and critical thinking should tell you that you always want to use the most appropriate and effective tool for the job and in the case of firearms I will be using an AR15.
If you really want to stop tragedy's like Sandy Hook you should focus on mental health screenings, liberal concealed carry permit issuance, and elimination of the "gun free zone" especially in crowded public places like schools, malls, etc. Take ownership for your own safety and quit relying on the government to protect you because they will always be to late to do anything but pickup your dead body.
I don't think Mike is trying to make a political statement by showcasing firearms on MotoIQ; he is simply showcasing superbly engineered machinery that we all should appreciate for their mechanical excellence.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:43 AM
Last month us featuring a gun build was met with overwhelming positive response without any negative response. The story also had high traffic and is highly ranked in Google. I had several emails directly asking me for AR15 content.
The passing of John Noveske, who's work I have admired made me want to showcase some of his technical talent. Not to politicize but I am strongly for the second amendment and wanted to show an alternative view of the workings of an AR to the popular media.
All of this stuff is my doing and my opinion, not the opinion of this company. I am not ashamed nor apologetic. I do not want to offend people and thus I am asking that if they don't like this content, don't read it. It does two things, first it won't expose them to stuff that offends them, whatever comments they write is not likely to change my opinion nor am I likely to change theirs. I track traffic and page views and that's my metric if people like something or not.
Stuff that's not popular gets dropped.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:08 PM
I had a rather large comment all prepared and when I submitted it the comment disappeared and nothing was posted, this has happened several times before on this site and is annoying to say the least :(
Ah well, the abridged version is as follows.
1. Google Australian firearm ban results if you're interested in how it worked from our down-under neighbors :) I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
2. Banning these firearms only keeps law abiding citizens from owning these weapons, not criminals and the mentally ill who sometimes get their hands on them and do sick things.
3. During our last "Assault Weapons Ban" Columbine occured in which they used shotguns, pipe bombs, 9mm handguns, and had knives. They simply used whatever was available to create the same end result.
These events are tragedies but what are we putting the weapons on trial here? Why should my 2nd amendment right be stomped on because of the actions of one deranged psycho who presumably would have just used whatever was available to do this?
To complete the cliche of being a typical right winger I'll leave you with this.
"We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." -Ronald Reagan
Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:06 PM
Wow, sad that he passed this early. Have toyed with the idea of getting one of the N4 models at some point but... cash flow. Also, while I may whine about Wisconsin some times, goddamn you guys in California have to put up with some weird laws.
Speaking as a lefty (who happens to own guns) there's all sorts of statistics and stuff on gun control not doing much except pissing law abiding people off. Assault weapons are also not a significant factor in crime use... and then there's all those people saying prohibition never works except to make criminals of normal people and create a thriving black market that causes violence by its operation, so let's legalize pot or whatever? Well goddamn, if prohibition never works, why are you trying to launch a prohibition campaign, banning stuff that "nobody needs" while trying to legalize other things that nobody needs that have ancillary societal damage? Do you really want laws telling you what you do and don't need? Think of the implications of that a bit. Ugh.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:31 PM
@6SPD_soul – Since you called me out personally I wanted to reply to the points your making so everyone can understand the counterpoint. Feel free to continue your point on the forums if you wish but any other posts on this here will be deleted.
Last thing first: Progress Technology wanted to time their advertising on this site with the release of the article not the other way around. Secondly, they support us; it's what keeps the hard-drives spinning. I wrote an honest article on their product about what the suspension is and isn't. For the money I think it's a great value and meets the requirements I wanted for a suspension. The product is made in the USA by a company who puts people to work to make this stuff so enthusiasts can have a little more fun in their cars. No sin here.
As far as stuff being free; when you break down all the hours required to do all the work necessary to produce an article the hourly rate is pretty lousy. We all do this because we love it not because we're sitting on a fictitious mountain of free parts or cruising around in Veyron's smoking stogies and drinking expensive whiskey. Quite honestly when I read about how Car & Driver must get bought off by BMW for every comparison test they win I can sympathize. They are far better at shrugging it off than we are.
Your conclusions about what you think you know about us, our site sponsors and the shops we use to do work is WRONG. PERIOD! We use our own hard-earned money to pay these businesses to do work. These shops can't pay their bills with free parts any more than we can.
Finally, MotoIQ is entertainment with a geeks twist in the automotive world. Way back when I was 25 jotting ideas for this site down on the back of a paper plate with friends I never imagined someone calling my fun on the web "bullshit" or the site and sponsors being "fucked." But over the years it's happened in various ways. I think if we were sitting together having a beer you'd find we're pretty similar and maybe you'd like more than you didn't about me and this site. But, because my friend wrote an article about a gun and you've drawn some false conclusions about project car parts and site advertisers suddenly we're fucked. Naw, we'll be fine dude; 49% of the country thought we'd be fucked after this last Presidential election and we'll be fine after all that too. I'm sure you've got better things to do in life than die on a mountain over anything you've read here.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:38 PM
I have been coming to this website for years, but this article/discussion has prompted my signup, first post, and final visit to this website.
I too would only expect to see automotive articles on a website called "MOTO-IQ". But to not only post something as controversial as guns with the events that transpired less than a month ago, but to then politicize your rant by bringing the "liberal media" into it is just begging people to disagree with you. This is an EXTREMELY volatile subject right now. Did you really think people would not act adversely to your stance? If not all of the MotoIQ staff agrees with your stance why post it as a "MotoIQ Staff Report" then? Why divide your audience or even take a chance at pushing people away from your website? Do you think your sponsors are happy about this? Maybe if they agree with you, but certainly not if they don't. This was undoubtedly a major mistake. Maybe some of your readers do like guns, but theres a greater chance that the majority do NOT. This article was done in poor taste and was similar to putting firecrackers in a hornets nest and sticking around to see the results. Bad news baseball, Mike.
And for the people screaming that nobody "needs" a 500hp corvette, maybe you're right. But the corvette is an automobile. An automobile is something people can use to get to work, or to pick up their kids from school, or go to the grocery store, or use everyday for everyday things. 500hp is a luxury, but can still be used to do these everyday things. There is a NEED for automobiles. Guns were designed to kill people. Not for "target practice" (what are your targets representing in the first place?), not for necessity, not to get groceries, certainly not to be around children or their schools. And they are very good at killing. Only the military "needs" them...
I am done with this website and I doubt I am the only one. I hope you can use this as a learning experience, MotoIQ. Everyone has the right to their own opinion so nobody is wrong here, but there is certainly a losing team...
Saturday, January 12, 2013 2:01 PM
guns still provide a useful purpose. many hunt game for food. and then there is that whole tyrannical government thing that our founding fathers were kinda dealing with and thought to prevent.
alcohol provides no useful purpose and directly kills significantly more people than scary black guns. yet practically everyone turns a blind eye to that. probably because drunk driving only kills a few at a time yet it happens everyday in this country.
how many have died in mass shootings in our lifetime? 100? 200? more people will die from alcohol related crashes in a weekend than in a decade of mass shootings.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 2:03 PM
if the AR and the .223 round it fires is so good at killing, then why is it not allowed in many states for hunting deer?
Saturday, January 12, 2013 2:06 PM
it is not allowed because deer still live, the .223 is too weak and the deer would spend hours running around and bleeding out before dying. What a crappy and non lethal round....If deer had medics, they can recover an fight back.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 2:14 PM
Considering the amount of innocent lives taken by guns in this country in the last couple months, did you really think this an appropriate article to publish?
A simple note of condolence to the man in Oregon who passed would have sufficed, and i still dont see the relevance of his relation to the motorsport website. It is in all-around bad taste.
This is not signal. IT IS NOISE.
Take it down Mike. This is an unnecessary detour.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 3:42 PM
The good guys always die too young.
As for the 2nd amendment or any other civil right for that matter is concerned, I swore an oath to up hold them, when i enlisted into the usaf..anyone living here under these rights need to realize how if you lose one, you will lose them all.
And if you do not want one of these rights, it's time you find yourself a new country to live in.
Signal heard loud and clear, rest in peace John Noveske, indeed.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 4:24 PM
An interesting article on a gorgeous weapon. I'd call it an excellent article, but the constant snarky editorializing is distracting. In-depth technical analyses are one of the main reasons I come to MotoIQ. I go to other places when I want to read an op-ed piece.
Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:28 PM
Man, I hadn't intended on commenting again on this but the amount of comments has me stunned and some of the comments even more so.
First, Mike, I have 10x the amount of respect for you than I ever have before (and it wasn't small before). I am proud to visit this site and even more proud that you stand behind your beliefs.
Second, some uninformed and possibly even ignorant comments have been said in this thread and in previous posts, but by far the worst offender I have seen in a long time has been from 6SPD_soul.
And I quote "E5 six years service here, fuck you civilians that think you and all your neighbors deserve to be able to own this weapon."
First, may I remind you that all those civilians pay that salary of yours and fund all the weapons that you enjoy using. Hell, mostly civilians build those same weapons that the entire US military has the privilege of using.
Second, it is highly likely that there are far more civilians (Mike Kojima included) that know that AR-15 in and out far more than your average MP knows his M-16. We the people keep you around to protect our freedoms especially the 1st and 2nd amendment. Your arrogant and elitist attitude is what has destroyed many countries. Please feel free to ask Germany, Italy and Russia how they felt after their military and government restricted their firearm ownership.
History repeats, and you are the problem.
Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:45 AM
all seriousness aside, whatever website software you guys use here on MIQ does a real good job of matching up the avatar icons with the emotion of the commenters.
Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:56 AM
I respect people who will no longer come here because we (let me change that to I) are personally offensive to them. They also will not change my opinion so it's pointless to try.
Guns as a hobby is not the larger argument. Defending personal property is not worth a human life. Defending a human life is an issue with myself. Our second amendment being the final check and balance to our government and part of American style democracy, not Australian, Canadian nor English is also important to me.
In an emergency I will defend my family (not my property) with every resource I have, my own life if I have too. This is my personal sacred right. I'll be dammed if someone strips my ability to do so.
I myself would rather live in a slightly more dangerous world than live without the personal freedoms we as Americans enjoy. Freedoms that a lot of Americans either don't understand or take for granted because they grew up in this wonderful country and haven't experienced the oppression that many people in the world live with.
I don't expect people to or think any less of those who don't have the same values as myself on this particular subject as it is complex and many people on both sides of the fence have good points but I wish some of them could show some tolerance.
Sunday, January 13, 2013 3:27 PM
my sister has argued the topic of shooting to defend property. Her argument always was "are you willing to kill someone over a TV?" I said she is looking at it backwards; the bad guy has to make the decision, it that TV worth dying for?
as to defending my family, I will beat a guy to death with a rubber chicken if that is what it takes to protect them.
Sunday, January 13, 2013 4:28 PM
-1 on article just so you've got my vote. Dismissed the previous article as a Jalopnik-ish brain fart which is why you didn't get any comments from me last time. I guess I missed the opportunity. I hear so much on the gun thing right now I like to escape to some motoiq. A bit disappointed to see it and the political nature of the discussion leak into here. keep up the good work on the car articles!
Sunday, January 13, 2013 6:43 PM
Wow, with all this negative comment, one would think you are out shooting people with this thing. Absolutely ridiculous. Car accidents kill FAR more people than guns do in this country, yet all of you are on this car forum. The only reason anyone cares about banning or limiting guns is because the media finds it easy to shove tragedies down your throat, instead of all the individual car accidents and drunk driver incidents etc.
Also, I lol'd at the WPC comment. surely this could benefit from this magical treatment.
Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:25 PM
Street Surgeon your comment about gun control not working in Australia is just plain wrong.
We have 1:10 the deaths from firearms that usa has, I don't believe that is only from limiting the sale of semi auto fire arms though.
It mostly comes from the fact that we have licensing, laws for how firearms are to be correctly stored (locked safe that is bolted to the ground ammo to be stored separate) and you have to prove you have a reason to own a firearm(hunting, sporting or agricultural).
I have my a/b class license and I'm glad it was a pain in the ass to get, keeps guns out of the hands of idiots.
I Don't know how Americans sleep knowing that there neighbour could try and defend themselves with a firearm, miss and have 223 or 308 round come through the dry wall.
That said I wish they would allow air-soft and make paintball easier to access at one stage you had to have your full a/b license to own a paint ball gun.
Monday, January 14, 2013 12:22 AM
I have been a reader for awhile, and just registered to say that I also thought this article was in extremely poor taste.
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:55 AM
Nothing in poor taste or offensive here people. It was an engineering article with some honest commentary. Mike could've gone into how Noveske tragically died right after he'd posted the correlation to those on psychiatric medications and these shooting sprees, but if he had, people would've been worse. BUT since PBS is doing a special in a couple weeks with regard to mental health and gun violence, their commentary is OK. Geez people RELAX. If you see an article, you don't think you'll like, why waste your time!? Don't be"schemers" in Heath Ledger's words as the Joker!
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