Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:28 PM
after reading this article I think there should be a pants wetting disclaimer (you owe me new ones btw!). Im interested in the Hsu-spec snail too.
Friday, April 16, 2010 12:59 AM
WOW Jeff you really out did yourself on this one. It's a good thing I escaped the Morlocks. :-)
Friday, April 16, 2010 5:59 AM
Second image from the bottom on the second page shows the exhaust outlet and the caption says the smaller pipe (hard to tell which is smaller with the camera angle) is for the wastegate discharge, yet the image above it shows where the wastegates are recirculated into the down pipe.
So, what's the dual outlet really for?
Friday, April 16, 2010 8:39 AM
dont have words to explain eric but trust me the car is a work of heart.your really gifted i told mike the other day that your not an ordinary tuner trust me.proud a you eric.keep it up man
Friday, April 16, 2010 9:06 AM
Wow, this car is a beast! Truly impressive work being put in by the guys at Sierra Sierra and Cosworth. I really like all of the aero work. It's too bad that FXMD didn't make this last time attack as I would have really liked to see the two cars competing head-to-head for laptimes.
Is FXMD going to make the Australian World Time Attack competition? If they still are then I guess that's where we'll see the battle go down.
Friday, April 16, 2010 9:41 AM
That car is a an amazing amazing collaboration! Thanks for the run through, there is defiantly some stuff I haven't seen before, very cool!
Friday, April 16, 2010 11:10 AM
what type of suspension is that? More pix of the custom knuckle too! looks like a fine piece of engineering!
what type of power is this thing making? Are you using your famed high compression, low boost preachings?
Friday, April 16, 2010 11:24 AM
opps. i was so excited i forgot to click to the next pages. ha!
awesome car. no doubt
Friday, April 16, 2010 4:43 PM
I noticed the lack of any sort of ceramic coating/header wrap on the header. On a car like this where nothing has been forgotten, I can't help but question it's effectiveness. Perhaps the sweet aero overcomes the radiating heat of the pipes. Even if that were so, you'd think that they would still want the supposed heat velocity benefit.
Also, no ball bearing turbo?
This article makes me question some of the hype out there :/
Friday, April 16, 2010 6:49 PM
@ Iron Giant: I'm with you on the lack of heat rejecting coatings on the manifold, seems like there could be a benefit. Maybe it's like you say and the aero extraction of under hood heat renders it unecessary.
No way would i want to wrap that manifold though... it's a bundle of snakes that would be a pain to wrap and if it ever cracked you wouldn't be able to readily see it under the wrap.
As far as the lack of a ball bearing turbo goes... hard to say but I'd bet the reasoning is that a journal bearing turbo tends to stay together better under really extreme use. Or it could just be that in order for Eric to come up with his super duper turbo with the wheels and trim and housing combo he wanted a journal bearing was the only way to go.
Friday, April 16, 2010 8:14 PM
Yes, previously Eric commented that the turbo setup he wanted wasn't available in BB.
Friday, April 16, 2010 9:14 PM
Ben, fixed it.
Iron Giant, Stainless steel has 1/2 the thermal conductivity of mild steel so coating is not needed. It also has a coefficient of expansion greater than steel and sometimes multi layer coatings can flake off due to differentials in expansion.
Saturday, April 17, 2010 8:06 AM
I like the stainless vac lines + banjo bolts for the EWGs.
Crazy anti-roll bar too.
Saturday, April 17, 2010 1:48 PM
Eric, I noticed the ACD Reservoir right behind the Halon System, curious where the ACD was relocated to?
Saturday, April 17, 2010 8:08 PM
I saw the mention of the Thermal Guard Composite Intake Gasket in the article. I see the Mitsubishi 4G63, Mitsubishi 4B11, and Nissan VQ35DE applications on the website.
Any release dates for the Subaru EJ20/EJ25, HondaK20, and Nissan VR38 application?
Saturday, April 17, 2010 9:43 PM
The FXMD/ Cricket NSX will not be making it to Australia. It looks like Sierra Sierra will be the only US team at the World Time Attacffk.
This is not a low boost high compression engine. That formula only works with certain engines. The 4G is not one of those engines in my experience.
There is a custom exhaust manifold heat shield on order. There are no plans to wrap the headers. We would probably go through a header every couple events if we wrapped them. On big tracks where there is a huge straight (Fontana or Tennessee) shit just gets hotter than you could ever imagine.
I don't necessarily believe in ball bearing turbos for larger frame turbos (anything gt35 and larger). This is a whole topic for another day, but let's just say if everythings riding on a film of oil, where's the friction? In a dry sump situation there's no need for inlet restictors so there's plenty of oil flowing through the bearing section.
The ACD was not relocated. Only the reservoir was.
Mark, EJ20/25 and VR38 thermal intake gaskets are coming. A K20 isn't planned unless the UK office sends us an order. They are selling like hot cakes. Finally there's an alternative to all the cheap ass plastic gaskets.
Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:19 PM
Alternate satirical caption:
Tomei adjustable timing gears are used to tune cam timing. Eric spent many hours on the dyno tweaking the cam timing to get them in the exact center of thier adjustability.
on a more serious note, can somone enlighten me on how they settled on a tubing diameter for the charge tubing? looks to be about 2in which looks pretty small compared to the 4in? intake and 4.5in exhaust. Looks like the primaries on the headers are as big as the charge tubing. I know you get better response with smaller tubing but that looks pretty restrictive. Garrett has this writeup on charge tubing calculations (http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_optimization.html#Charge%20Tubing%20&%20Charge-Air-Cooler) I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the topic?
Monday, April 19, 2010 1:48 AM
Tomei sells some Cosworth parts to their Japanese customers and we sell some Tomei bits here to some of our US customers to fill in product gaps as in this case since Cosworth does not manufacture cam gears. I use Tomei products in my personal R32 GTR
The charge tubing is not 2in. The exhaust is not 4.5in. The primaries on the headers are not as big as the charge tubing. You might not be taking distance into perspective. Nowhere is the charge tubing smaller than 2.5in, the exhaust in 3.5in, and I'm not sure about the exhaust primaries (ask Full-Race). I have the primary IDs in my notes, but don't recall them at the momentl. The charge tubing diameters have all been changed since the story was created because of the newer and lighter intercooler core (10lbs weight savings with 30% greater core size - tube & fin intercoolers ROCK). I usually rely on experience to spec out tubing sizes and use data to correct if necessary.
Monday, April 19, 2010 1:58 AM
Oh I think I get the satire now. You think the cam sprockets are in the center of their adjustment. If you saw them in person you would see that they are close to center, but not. It's kinda dumb to comment on something if you don't know the back story. To make a long story short, I had the lobe centers adjusted from the prototypes so they could be installed at center. But due to a turbine A/R change, a small adjustment was made to timing.
Why did I have the lobe centers changed during grinding so they could be installed at near center? Because I can.
Monday, April 19, 2010 12:44 PM
Did not intend to insult your expertise, even from the pic I can tell they are not perfectly centered, and I don't doubt for a minute you put a lot of time and effort into getting them perfect, it was just my first observation of the picture and was meant only as a somewhat humorous anecdote.
And sorry for making generalizations about what I guessed to be the different tubing sizes, all I meant to imply was that the charge tubing looked small by comparison. Reading this article you get the sense that every detail of the car was engineered properly, tested, revised etc. so I was just curious how you (or the team) settled on that size and what the considerations were.
I thoroughly enjoyed this article and I'm absolutely floored by how awesome this car is. So I apologize if my comment was "kinda dumb", I'll try to avoid commenting from work at 1am when I'm basically a zombie.
Monday, April 19, 2010 5:40 PM
The ACD was not relocated. Only the reservoir was.
My bad, yes, the ACD Reservoir. I guess it is under the car kept away from debris and sight by the flat bottom?
Monday, April 19, 2010 7:07 PM
Fuergrissa: the internet (or printed text) doesn't really convey intonation unfortunately. I mistakenly took your humor as a jab. I admit I am overly sensitive at times to jabs from the masses. Many of the methods and parts I use are not common amongst the SPEs/FFFs on the many forums. On the other hand I may have come off like I was chewing your head off, but that was not the case. I just type like I talk: no BS. I was just explaining in as few words as possible (it was late). Sorry for the misunderstanding. As for tubing sizes, you can get down using a calculation for pressure, temp, mass, volume, etc. for figuring out tubing sizes but practical experience generally works well for me.
Will: The reservoir is located on the floor where the right rear passenger would be sitting. The pump and solenoid assembly is in the factory location hidden by the floor.
Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:06 PM
Curious, why did you guys choose to go with an Evo VIII cylinder head vs. the IX with all it's MIVEC hotness?
Wednesday, April 21, 2010 1:52 PM
Eric needs to loosen up! And i thought being on the left coast would make you as cool as a cucumber. Haha.
Or cool like the underside of a pillow.
Posts at 1 AM are mandatory. I find my inhibitions about posting down quite a bit and will post whore frequently. I also find i do not know as much at that time as I pretend to know at 1PM.
Just thought i would throw some humor back in here to keep it lively.
Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:43 PM
What does cool like the underside of pillow mean?
Thursday, April 22, 2010 12:29 AM
it's when you flip over the pillow in the middle of the night and Billy Dee Williams is on the other side...
Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:06 AM
Awesome job on all fronts Eric/SSE team! I love this car but hating being on track with it at the same time!
Monday, April 26, 2010 1:10 PM
hey it's GST! when are we gonna get the specs to the impreza?
Monday, April 26, 2010 9:05 PM
Hey GST, we want to feature you car! Can we shoot it at Cal Speedway?
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7:36 AM
@ sticky667 Anyone is welcome to those spec's anytime mate, the only thing I can't tell you is who is driving it at the RTA events as even I don't know!
Mike - You can shoot the car and feature it anytime you like we would feel honored to be featured!
Friday, September 10, 2010 12:51 PM
I'd like to inquire as to whether or not the wastegate dump tubes sleeve into the main exhaust. I see some white material/paste which connects the wg dump tube to the rest of the exhaust assembly. What kind of compound is that?
Wednesday, December 29, 2010 6:05 AM
Holy crap, the Sierra-Sierra Evo broke the HKS CT230R's record?!
Eric, are there any plans to smash HKS's records at Tsukuba or Suzuka in Japan? There are few things I would love to see more than an American-built Evo beat up on one built by a "prestigious" Japanese tuning house!
Wednesday, December 29, 2010 10:53 AM
That'd be a solid event going out to Japan to crush a Tsukuba record... the only problem is the retaliation from that would be enormous.
Wednesday, December 29, 2010 11:23 AM
Dusty: Actually the SSE EVO beat the HKS CT230R's time 2x at Buttonwillow. First it went 1:43.2 when this article was written and then Emp drove the SSE EVO to a 1:41.046 just this past November at the Super Lap Battle finals.2010 Source Interlink Superlap Battle + Sierra Sierra = Domination
Garret: What do you mean by retaliation? In case the SSE EVO either beats or does not beat the HKS record?
Wednesday, December 29, 2010 1:45 PM
@Eric: I saw on SSE's website that you are scheduled to race at Tsukuba later in 2011. I can't wait to see you smash HKS's record!
Wednesday, December 29, 2010 3:38 PM
Wonderful article. Good luck in Australia.
I hope in the near future we can get an Insider article on the shocks. They look awesome!
I too would like to see a discussion on why MIVEC was not used, assuming it was considered in the first place.
Wednesday, December 29, 2010 3:44 PM
I've read what I could find on the Hydraulic Couplers. Am I right in saying they basically function as a pivot point at either end of the spring? And I've heard these things require rebuilds for every 6 hours of track time. Any chance of them becoming streetable/low maintenance in the near future?
About the MIVEC-less head, I read in either SCC or Racecar Engineering about a naturally aspirated Lexus racecar build. They went without variable valve timing to reduce weight and complexity. The powerband of a racecar is relatively narrow, so any effects would be negligible, or only used in the pits at low RPM. It's great on a streetcar, but does nothing for such a purely focused machine.
Wednesday, December 29, 2010 3:50 PM
It would be good to see the car at Tsukuba.
HKS is no joke. The CT230R is no joke. The only reason that car didn't go faster, was because it didn't have to. They say the fast laps, don't really look that fast. I was at the Super Lap when HKS did the 1:43, and it looked effortless.
I am sure that Sierra Sierra will have enough to take them out.
Wednesday, December 29, 2010 8:55 PM
Hey Eric, those are spark plugs not tits you're looking at. = )
And don't forget to push the Evo into the garden before you go back.
Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:22 PM
I LOL'ed at the last pic on page 2, me taking pics of the tricky rear swaybar...
Eric, thanks for letting me be a nosy bitch....haha
Thursday, December 30, 2010 7:02 PM
Friday, April 15, 2011 9:04 PM
Wow. The suspension makes my setup look like a bunch of cobbled together legos.
No wonder this car is so fast... no stone has been left unturned.
Saturday, November 05, 2011 12:32 PM
I saw this car in "Performance Auto & Sound" magazine, and noticed that it said that it used a Cosworth Big Valve head, and "No head gasket used". I thought that sounded pretty fishy. This article says that it uses a "Cosworth 1.3mm FSL stopper type metal head gasket". I'm curious what a "stopper type" gasket is?
Saturday, November 05, 2011 2:19 PM
This article was written in 2010 and the PAS article was wrtten in late 2011. A lot has changed on this car since the 2010 MotoIQ article.
Visit www.cosworthusa.com for more info on the FSL stopper head gaskets.
Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:53 PM
Eric, looking at the Cosworth pistons i notice they utilize anti scuff skirt coatings but no thermal barrier coatings.
What are your thoughts on thermal barrier coatings?
I have noticed when tuning a boosted engine with thermal barrier piston/chamber coatings that it does not seem to tolerate as much timing advance as an un-coated engine which appears to affect the power curve.
Water/Meth seems to help greatly but i was just curious if in your experience the coatings are beneficial or detrimental to max pwr
Do you guys at Cosworth torque or stretch your primary engine fasteners (rods/head/main)
Thanks for your insight..
Friday, November 18, 2011 2:08 AM
I don't have any thoughts on thermal barrier coatings because I've never really performed any A/B tests. What I do know is that Cosworth does not run any TBCs on any pistons of any of their race engines. This includes the highly boosted WRC engines. I'm not saying TBCs are useless. I'm just saying that I have limited experience with them.
We don't always use anti-scuff coatings on the skirts. It depends on the application, but when it fits within the budget, we prefer to run the skirt coating.
It could also be that our forgings are generally superior to most other manufacturers especially when compared to the tuning aftermarket. Our alloys contain higher amounts of copper than most others and our forgings are done in house which gives us control. It is a massive forge (two stories tall) and the forge tools are also extra robust which allows us to forge parts at much higher pressures too.
Yes, we stretch our rod bolts and head studs. We generally torque the mains, but it depends on the fastener design.
Friday, November 18, 2011 2:20 PM
I would suspect that if there were significant benefits in the use of TBC's, a company with as much top level race background as Cosworth would be using them on their race engines..
Its not often one gets to chat with someone with your level of experience so i hope you don't mind a couple more questions..
What is your experience with compression ratios and turbocharging?
For years it seemed 8-8.5:1 was the preferred compression ratio for Boosted engines, but it seems as technology and materials improve the ratio's are getting higher.
For an engine built to run 20-25psi boost would 9 or even 9.5:1 be a good compromise between off boost response and still allow that amount of boost? Perhaps with h2o/meth for cooling.
Does the CW alloys and high pressure forgings allow you to run tighter piston clearances?
How tight in something like the Evo?
I know CW did make pistons for the VG30dett at one time but i do not see them on the website
If no longer available from CW, who would you recommend among the aftermarket manufacturers?
When stretching your head studs, do you use a dial indicator on the top of the stud to measure the stretch?
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge..
Friday, November 18, 2011 7:34 PM
The problem with CRs above 8.5 on turbo'ed engines is detonation. Water/meth injection helps but the real breakthrough seems to be GDI (Gasoline Direct Injection). This keeps the fuel out of the combustion chamber until just before ignition, much like a diesel, so you are only compressing air. No fuel, no detonation. :) In 2000 Mitsubishi introduced a turbo charged (don't know the boost), GDI 1.8l with a 10.0 CR in Japan ( http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Mitsubishis-Direct-Injection-Turbo-18/A_1063/article.html ). In 2004 Nissan put a turbocharged, GDI 1.6l engine in their Juke running up to 12 psi of boost with a 9.5 CR in Japan ( http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/1731/nissans-mr16ddt-16l-direct-injection-turbo-engine.aspx ), ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_MR_engine ). Ford's V6 Eco Boost engine is a GDI turbo running 12 psi of boost and has a 10.0 CR ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_EcoBoost_engine ).
Sunday, November 20, 2011 9:55 PM
It could be that the need for TBCs has never arised due to the higher quality materials we use. Or that Cosworth never runs anything "on the edge" therefore not requiring any special coatings. It could be a number of reasons why Cosworth does not use TBCs.
CRs and turbocharging depends heavily on what goes on in the chamber and how well the cylinder head is cooled outside of the obvious stuff like potential hot spots, port design, head flow, etc. This is no place to answer such an in depth question so I'll leave it at that.
Yes, we can run our pistons tighter. In 4G EVOs, we build our blocks to about .003" piston to cyl wall. That should be fine for anything under 850hp. That isn't a bullshit "bottom of the skirt" figure either. That's at widest point of the lowest barrel. Our EVO pistons have triple barrel shapes too that set them apart from some of the other stuff that have half assed barrel shapes.
I think Cosworth makes VG30DETT pistons for JUN, but we do not offer them under the Cosworth brand. Contact JUN for a set.
We determine the amount of stretch on an engine that is bolted to a granite surface plate. Then the stretch is measure with a height gauge on the granite plate. Once we know the stretch for that engine in that particular configuration, then we know the angle torque required for all subsequent builds. Cosworth studs are manufactured to tight tolerances so the angle torque figures can be applied to every stud being torqued without having to measurement each time.
Yes GDI has definite benefits, but it will be a while before GDI is applied to non-GDI engines as an aftermarket thing.
Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:09 PM
I would be surprised if we ever saw after market GDI systems given the head work, piston top shape, and even combustion chamber shape that comes into play for effective GDI.
Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:22 PM
I have been interested in GDI since Isuzu first brought it to the US. It would be interesting to see what the aftermarket could come up with. In 1980 aftermarket fuel injection might as well been rocket science. GDI on your classic 350 Chevy sounds interesting to me.
Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:35 PM
Maybe we could talk Eric or someone into doing an article on GDI since it seems to be up and coming. The big issue I see to retrofit a GDI system is having to drill and tap another hole through the head into the combustion chamber in just the right spot and just the right angle. Doing that may be near impossible with existing valve train and cooling passages that may well be in the way. Then you need very high pressure fuel pumps to make it work (I know a V8 that uses twin 5mpa pumps running off a cam on each head), and very fast computers to control it since it may fire fuel in up to 3 times per cycle. I think it would be easier to do a whole engine swap.
Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:59 PM
I'll be the first to admit that I don't know jack about GDI chamber and cylinder head design. I understand the fuel injection theories of the different OEs, but that's about it.
There are multiple OEM GDI engines which are basically non GDI bottom ends with a new cylinder head design and a different piston. Examples I can think of right off the bat are the Mazda MZR/DISI and the Ford Duratec/GDI Duratec.
Monday, November 21, 2011 12:06 AM
It is new to most people and not well understood overall, but hopefully it is an inspiration for a future article as we are getting way off topic here. It has been a passion of mine now for several years.
Monday, November 21, 2011 12:13 AM
There are tons of aftermarket 350 Chevy heads. 350 Chevy pistons aren't an issue. Just mentioning that engine because it is very well supported, plentiful, and you could probably see some interesting gains. I have several SAE papers on direct injection.
Friday, September 13, 2013 3:03 PM
Whoa, a blast from the past! Ahhh, some great memories. It is a bummer this car did not continue development. Even at a beefy 2800+ lbs race weight, it was already a next level TA car. This build was so exciting for me, it made me feel like a little kid watching a super hero. I just wanted to see it in action more and more, and was crushed when SSE hung up their cape.
This was an older SSE setup, are we going to revisit a newer SSE set up again?
What made you ditch the Eric spec turbo for the EFR? Besides "they were a sponsor"
Is there still a vq powered bnr32 being built to take a win at the WTAC? It seems like it has been nearly 12 months since motoiq ran an update on that TA build...
Sunday, September 15, 2013 2:06 PM
can you reveal the head sealing solution that was once hush hush?
Sunday, September 15, 2013 3:17 PM
Aside from "gas filled o-rings". Which are pretty cool in and of themselves.
Sunday, September 15, 2013 4:11 PM
yes. last I read here was they were using a gasketless set up.
Sunday, September 15, 2013 7:32 PM
I'm under the impression that you run the o-ring w/ a mls gasket?