
|
|
John N. Frink posted on December 01, 2011 01:55 

There doesn't appear to be any camber adjustment in the MacPherson strut front suspension. The top mounts (visible in the engine shot) look suspiciously like Impreza top mounts. That's just fine, since Impreza mounts are indestructible, but there's no adjustment there.
Down here, the lower control arm is an L-arm, with the steering rack in the back and the L part of the arm pointing forward. If there was going to be camber adjustment down here, it would be on that lower control arm bushing just below the steering arm. No such luck.

The arm itself is a simple steel arm. It's a single stamping that should be lightweight, cheap, and easy to bend if you try to do traditional Subaru things with it.

The last chance for camber adjustment would be here, at the strut mount. There should be an eccentric on one of those bolts, but again, no luck.

The front calipers are two-piston sliders. These look a lot like Impreza calipers to us, which would mean there's already a huge array of performance pads available for the 86 before it ever hits the showroom. Assuming they were nice enough to carry over mounting points, there will be brake upgrades galore as well.

The multilink rear suspension does appear to be from an Impreza, as suspected. Long lower control arms look the same. Forged steel upper A-arm looks the same. Stamped steel trailing arm looks the same. The differential in an Impreza, though, is a Hitachi R160. Subaru has been using versions of this diff since the '80s, and Nissan started using it back in 1967 (when they built the first 1968 510s). This is not an R160, though.
Imprezas only put 50% of their power to the back, so a diff ready to handle 200 hp would be on a 400 hp Impreza. Sadly, Subaru doesn't make such a thing. When they make a 300-hp Impreza, though, they use an R180 (Same diff Nissan used in 1969 on the 1970 240Z). This is also not an R180...

If anyone recognizes this diff, shout it out. We've never seen it before and fear it might be new. Carryover diffs are always good, since they mean abundant selection of gear ratios and limited slips.
UPDATE: Thanks to @AKADriver for pointing us in an IS direction for the diff. This IS300 diff looks like the same one. That's all good news. Lots of ratios available, lots of different LSDs, plus word is the FR-S will come with an LSD of some sort from the factory anyway.

Finally, wheels and tires are mixed news.
The wheels appear to be 17x7.5, and the bolt pattern is, sadly, Subaru's standard 5x100. There has been rampant speculation on this subject in the last few days, but I got on my knees and measured. This bolt patern severely limits wheel selection, which is a damn shame.
The 215/45-17 tire size is actually good news. 225/45-17s will slap right on, and that's a well supported size, with lots of performance tires available. The factory tire is a Michelin Primacy HP. No idea how bad that is. Factory tires are always engineered to the manufacturer's specs, so even if you've had experience with a tire that claims to be a Primacy HP, it's unlikely to be the same tire. The 240 treadwear rating is the only hint we have.
Other than the fact that it actually looks better in person and that we all want one now, that's all the info we have on the 86. There are a few more shots being processed and uploaded, so we'll update this page as soon as we have them.
Expect the car to go on sale in March or April.
Pages: 2 of 2 Previous Page
Thursday, December 01, 2011 6:57 AM
This is the only new car I'm the least bit excited about! Looks like Toyota/Subaru are heading in the right direction with it. Toughest decision is which version to get.
Thursday, December 01, 2011 7:33 AM
Hey, did you guys use my grey Mustang in that infographic? :-P I really WANT to like this car, but it needs more power. I really hope a turbocharged variant is in the works.
Thursday, December 01, 2011 8:08 AM
does anyone else wish it had a single exhaust?
Thursday, December 01, 2011 8:25 AM
I've been waiting for this kind of article on the car. I'm pretty excited for it, and may replace my civic with one when the time comes. It's interesting (although not too surprising) to see how much of the car is Subaru. I would have thought mostly just the engine would be from Subaru and the chassis would be from Toyota/Lexus. To see basically Impreza suspension under it is a real surprise. As for the power rating, I think it's perfect given the target demographic and the size/weight. The last thing Toyota wants is legions of young people driving small overpowered cars that are hard to control due to short wheelbase and low weight. Around where I live many BMW 335i's are being wrapped around trees because of this. Plus I think there is enough tuning potential in this engine that it could make a decent high RPM screamer or a nice turbo build with lower comp pistons. Having the intake manifold facing the front is sure to be a relief for the turbo guys.
Thursday, December 01, 2011 9:07 AM
MotoIQ linking to The Truth about cars? What next Dave Coleman and Murilee Martin co authoring an article? (Not that either of these things is a bad thing ;-) The quote from Tetsuya Tada is classic Toyota doing something out of the norm just to see what happens mentality. The past attempts at breaking the mold have been a HUGE success for Toyota. The Lexus brand and the Prius, love it or hate it, was born from this mentality at Toyota. If you've never read the Toyota way I highly recommend it. This culture at Toyota is what drives them when they create awesome cars. Also don't forget that the 4A-GE heads were designed by Yamaha as well
Thursday, December 01, 2011 9:13 AM
Nice, pretty excited to see this car in person, and test drive it. I think I might be looking at the car that replaces my RX8.
Thursday, December 01, 2011 9:32 AM
If the Toyota version uses a Toyota ECU, and the Subaru uses a relatively standards Subaru ECU,I'd go for the Subaru BRZ. Why? Subaru ecus have been hacked and easy to reflash with freeware. Toyota ECUs? I don't think anyone has hacked one. Well, probably a lot of that has to do with Toyota not having anything worth hacking up to this point.....
Thursday, December 01, 2011 9:44 AM
press releases have been saying both will have a tunable ecu for a long time now...
Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:00 AM
@spdracerut I read some where that the first gen will be the EXACT car across the board with the exception of badges and front and rear cosmetics. The second gen would be more diverse. Back in the 90's they had the General motors GEO/Corrolla shared platforms with the 4A and the 7A they used the Toyota ECU. So I think it's safe to say that the first gens will have the same ecu. I'd be willing to bet that it would be a Subaru style ECU if I had to guess. (Heck, both are probably manufactured buy Nippon Denso.)
Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:03 AM
Everything but the front bumper and 86 badge seems to be common between the two cars, so I'd expect them to share an ECU. The little plastic badge/cover on the intake manifold plenum even has both Toyota and Subaru on it. They didn't even make unique parts for that! No way they'll have separate ECUs. The fact that it runs Toyota's dual-injector system strongly suggests a Toyota system. Also, I've heard plenty of talk about trying to make the car easy to tune, but none specifically saying it will have a tunable ECU. @warmmilk, if you have a link to Toyota or Subaru saying that, share it with us and I'll update the story.
Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:06 AM
pk386, i'm giving Murilee a ride to the airport on Sunday, so we'll see what I can do!
Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:09 AM
^^^ Like ^^^
Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:13 AM
I first saw the piped sound to the interior on a ford focus and it took me a while to figure out what the hell it was.
Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:14 AM
I hope they bring it to China and I hope that they don't make it 3x the actual price. That would be NICE... I think this car is totally sweet! Bet that flat 4 would sound spectacularrrrrr with an equal length header and some ITBs.
Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:21 AM
"They want small compact cars that are controllable, that they can tune themselves. However, that kind of sports car is not on the market. Therefore, these sports car enthusiasts are forced to continue to use older cars from a long time ago, because there is no new alterative on the market.” That is the absolute truth in the matter...
Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:23 AM
@ Dave Coleman Are you driving the Mazda variant of it? :)
Thursday, December 01, 2011 12:04 PM
Those front calipers look a hell of a lot like the 2005 Legact GT front calipers I just put on my WRX....
Thursday, December 01, 2011 12:35 PM
that rear end looks very much like the one in my altezza. 7.5" i would bet its a 4:10 when it comes out. lots of ratios available
Thursday, December 01, 2011 12:45 PM
exhaust manifold is equal length like every n/a subaru since 06, although shaped a little differently since the oil pan doesn't have to be so far forward to clear a steering rack and stuff: http://hellafunctional.com/?attachment_id=839 as for front camber adjustment, it's hard to tell if that's an eccentric bolt or not from the picture of the back of it. On a Subaru, the thread pitch of a camber bolt is the same as the standard bolts and they use the same size wrench on both ends. If we could see the head of the bolt it would be a little more clear. Front control arms look a lot like current impreza as well. sti aluminum upgrade which widens the track and adds camber? Front calipers look 03+ wrx ish.
Thursday, December 01, 2011 12:46 PM
@John There's a 100+ page thread on supraforums on the car and there are a few links in there about the ecu.
Thursday, December 01, 2011 2:10 PM
@warmmilk, can you post up the cliffnotes on the ECU? So this thing is looking like a Subaru chassis and engine, Toyota fuel injection/ecu and drivetrain. Lexus has the 6-speed manual out of the IS250.... and GCMBob says the rear looks like that of an Altezza. Hmmm...
Thursday, December 01, 2011 2:42 PM
oh and the axle-back looks just like the 08+ sti hatch. Probably how greddy already has an exhaust on one.
Thursday, December 01, 2011 3:37 PM
The differential is without a doubt a Toyota unit, straight from the IS250 and similar to ones used in moderately-powered Toyota RWD cars for a while... IS300, Supra non-turbo, etc. Here's an IS250 diff (upside down): http://www.advancebay.com/2/092410%20(84).JPG
Thursday, December 01, 2011 6:36 PM
Yep, looks like the IS250 diff, right down to the dimple in the diff cover by the "11.7.14" stamp. The propaganda machine is doing an excellent job of making me want one. I want one.
Thursday, December 01, 2011 6:53 PM
OS Giken makes a diff upgrade for the IS250, so that takes care of that. I know a big brake kit is already in the works if not already completed. If the suspension looks like Impreza parts, hopefully existing coilovers setups will bolt in just requiring revalving and 86/BRZ specific spring rates.
Thursday, December 01, 2011 7:01 PM
At quick glance the differential looks similar to the one on my IS300....
Thursday, December 01, 2011 7:08 PM
At first i was unsure about this car, but damn i may have to buy the Subaru version and tune the suspension and install some unequal length headers if possible??
Thursday, December 01, 2011 7:12 PM
I'm a little angry about the wheel PCD. I was looking forward to being a completely mood driven 5x114.3 wheel whore.
Thursday, December 01, 2011 8:04 PM
@Chris H, unequal length headers are a terrible idea. In fact jdm sti's haven't used them for many years, but of course the usdm gets stuck with it:(
Thursday, December 01, 2011 9:11 PM
Can anyone comment on the Toyota 6-speed? If in fact that is who made the transmission. I would have thought a Subaru unit would have been a better choice, given the high reliability of their 6-speed. Maybe they don't know how to make out without a front diff in it :)
Thursday, December 01, 2011 11:44 PM
the diff looks like a R200 am i rite do i get a cookie
Thursday, December 01, 2011 11:55 PM
abunai s13.5, sorry, we already determined it's from the IS250. Read the comments above.
Friday, December 02, 2011 12:34 AM
No cookie for you! Story has been updated. Mystery mostly solved.
Friday, December 02, 2011 7:32 AM
"Also don't forget that the 4A-GE heads were designed by Yamaha as well" Don't forget the true roots of that engine.
Friday, December 02, 2011 11:24 AM
The turbo on the 1.6L appears to have an oil scavenge system similar to the Porshce 911 turbo. That silver thing under the turbo basically looks like an oil drain pan for the turbo which can then be scavenged.
Friday, December 02, 2011 1:10 PM
Agreed. There would be no other intuitive purpose for having a small sub-tank right there.
Friday, December 02, 2011 5:31 PM
the low mount turbo Legacy GT has a little oil pan for the turbo and a cam driven scavenge pump.
Friday, December 02, 2011 6:33 PM
Equal length headers...finally.
Friday, December 02, 2011 8:29 PM
There's a press launch video on YT somewhere that says the transmission is an Altezza unit, but with so many changes it's basically all new. I'm interested to learn the details of the intake honkus. It looks like there's a vacuum canister on it (open the sound-good valve when the throttle is open...). However, the placement on the outside of the elbow going to the TB has to mess with flow. Will people give up some good engine sound for another 5 hp (just a guess)? And not to mention, that's a really tight 90 bend. Also, I really want to see what happens with better headers/front cat and eliminating the point where the cat-back is flattened like road kill as it passes under the inboard CV joint. This will be fun!

Sunday, December 04, 2011 5:03 PM
I've already been getting blown up about his and some other GDI engines on the market. So I did lots of talking, digging, poking and prodding at PRI and before the last year. So I'll be getting to guinea pig some parts and EM platforms. I need to bug the guys at Cobb too to see what they have planned. As an 'industry insider' I already know the hurdles that 'could' come with upgrading GDI injectors (which I would hands down do over port injection)so, I'm trying to get the EM guys to the table with the injector guys so were can work out trim issues and make then uniform. Regardless, I'm excited about it and looking forward to digging in. A good solution may finally be on the way for the N54/55 engine, 997.2 Porsches, numerous D4-S (stupid system) base engines, VW/Audis, and various other GDI cars!! As for this car, seeing the sum of parts, I'm not surprised. I have the feeling they took the engineers, gave a small budget and the engine being the goal and said use what we already have between Subaru and Toyota. I hope it turned out well and will certainly be on the waiting list for some NA and FI development.
Sunday, December 04, 2011 10:31 PM
I'm not surprised at all about the bolt pattern of the wheels. With the WRX and Legacy still running on 5x100, there is no chance that the car would have 5x114. Also have to consider the fact that most if not all of Toyota's small cars also run 5x100 (Corolla, Matrix, tC) That 1.6L turbo may or may not make it into the BRZ because that's supposed to be there new engine. If anyone paid attention to their "Concept Sports Tourer" or something to that name, they are putting in a 1.6L turbo hybrid drivetrain. Its a good dream to hold on though. I remember a time where 200 was a big power number. Now its slow even at 300hp. I don't even think I can handle a properly tuned 200hp car, let alone 300. Yeah its a bit of a bummer compared to other cars, but everyone needs to wake up and realized the closest competitor to the 86/BRZ is the Miata, and the Miata only has 155hp. Its not a 300hp Mustang or Genesis Coupe.
Monday, December 05, 2011 12:22 AM
@Leon, Miatas are 167 hp these days, but that doesn't really chance your point. I totally agree, most people don't even know how to REALLY use 200 hp, especially in a reasonably light car. Oh, and to be clear, I don't think the 1.6 turbo will go in the BRZ either, but if a 2.0 turbo does find its way in there, expect the layout to look like this. Even if it doesn't, this is a handy hint for how we should do it ourselves...
Monday, December 05, 2011 10:33 AM
I suspect the 1.6L will be reserved for the next STI. Hear me out for why... The current WRC rules only allow 1.6L turbo engines, and are based on smaller chassis than before. Subaru has mentioned recently that the next STI will be based on a separate platform from the Impreza. This plus the development of a 1.6L turbo engine leads me to believe that Subaru is planning on relaunching the STI as a smaller hatch or coupe for purposes of racing in the WRC again. The only issue with that plan of course is that I am pretty sure WRC requires the engines be transverse. That will make for an interesting installation of a boxer engine unless I am incorrect on that rule. /rumourmill
Monday, December 05, 2011 10:40 AM
That's a really good point about the new rules Erik..
Monday, December 05, 2011 11:04 AM
Meanwhile, Subaru has already the race car prepared for the japanese championship, well worth taking a look. Gentlemen, teh Subaru BRZ GT300: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3LjYl7VfFKE
Monday, December 05, 2011 1:40 PM
Hmm.. interesting point about the 1.6L engine. Though I don't see Subaru going to WRC, but I'm pretty sure 1.6L is the displacement of the Global Race Engine used heavily in touring car racing. So BMW basically uses the same 1.6L engine based on the Mini engine for its WRC cars and its touring cars. Ford uses the 1.6L Ecoboost for touring cars. But I also know that Subaru is coming out with 2.0L turbo engines for its newer models, downsizing from the current 2.5L.
Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:02 AM
Recently, I read a Motor Trend article explaining the technical features of the Toyota D-4S fuel injection system. At low and medium engine loads, the system utilizes direct and port fuel injection. At high engine loads, the system utilizes direct fuel injection only. Presumably, at high engine loads, it's possible to significantly increase fuel supply by simply switching the port fuel injection on. For modest power level increases (e.g., low-pressure forced induction), it may not require any fuel system upgrades. The port fuel injectors are probably small though, given that they exist primarily for high fuel economy, low emissions and drivability. If that's the case, there may be problems operating at high load (e.g., duty cycle, etc.) Does anyone have additional information about the system? Is anybody tuning these systems yet?
Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:28 AM
The EMS will be flash programmable, correct?
Saturday, December 10, 2011 10:46 AM
I believe Toyota developed the port and direct injection system due to some issues with running direct only. I want to say that with DI only, at the lower engine speeds and loads, the spray pattern of the DI and air flow characteristics at those lower loads would cause deposits to build up in the intake valve seating surface. So by running port injection at the same time, the fuel coming through the ports cleans off the intake valves preventing deposits. As for the ECU, I just got word that Toyota had absolutely nothing to do with it, purely Fuji Heavy, i.e. Subaru. So that's a great sign towards the ecu being easier to crack once it's out.
Saturday, December 10, 2011 11:55 AM
Thanks spdracerut. I believe the MT article mentioned the carbon deposit issue, but other manufacturers are building GDI-only engines. Perhaps they are using other methods to address the same issue (e.g., different materials or coatings)? I'm glad to hear that they're using a Subaru ECU. It seems like the aftermarket has a good handle on them.
Friday, December 16, 2011 11:00 PM
I don't believe the buildup is an issue till high mileage rears it's head (over 150K, maybe over 200K). Our 07' Mazdaspeed3 is at 100K and hasn't had any motor related problems at all, other than an EGR tube that clogged (that's not GDI related). I do believe I've read that Mazda has a solution they implemented on the new Skyactiv engines though to prevent the buildup from ever accumulating.
Friday, December 23, 2011 3:41 AM
pop the ecu for aftermarket unit, use the secondary injectors for meth, LOL, it would wash away all the deposits :D
 
|
|
MotoIQ Proudly Presents Our Partners:
|