Revspeed Super Battle Time Attack 2010 - Tsukuba JapanI

Neat stuff, this is where stock cars are today, not running around Daytona. Always enjoy reading up on time attack cars, especially the SSE EVO or FXMD NSX. When's MotoIQ going to go over the updated NSX? Looks like they've done a lot to it in the last year.

What is your take on the old HKS Altezza? It has an OG Pi Dash so i have to ask your opinion. Is it too hardcore to be considered for Time Attack?

http://www.superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/custom_2000_hks_altezza_racecar/index.html

I am a sucker for it and thought it was cool back then.

Whoa that is the same OG Pi Dash we have on our engine dyno dashboard from the old CART cars. I think this car is awesome, but it was basically "booed off stage" by the other Japanese time attackers of the time. The car was considered so radical that HKS basically put it away and has denied its existence to this day. It was dry carbon everything, fabricated billet subframes, complete X-Trac drivetrain, cantilevered suspension, etc.

Eric if I recall it correctly, the fastest laptime the Cyber EVO recorded at Tsukuba was 54.6XX, however Wikipedia states being 55.864 the fastest they went.
I could have swear they Cyber EVO went into the 54's.
The HKS EVO CT230R and the Altezza (that got disqualified) you posted above are $500.000 cars, thanks a lot.....lol
You might as well post the GT500 NSX Tsuchiya drove a while back. It recorded 51.875.....lol

What does an R35 turn out of curiosity? We are going to attempt to get Godzilla as a project car.

Alex: I thought the CyberEVO entered the 53's at Tsukuba, but I'm not entirely sure either. I think the HKS Altezza was far more than a $500,000 car. If you include all of HKS' previous EVOs leading up to the CT230R, it's a $2MM program. But then again none of that matters when your company generates (or used to) over $90MM annually.

Mike: Godzilla is too heavy! Don't do it! Well not for a time attack car at least...

Yeah godzilla project sounds awesome. I want some pulsar gt-ir action also.

Would love to see a R35 project if it's something radical. If it's going to be another wheels/tires/brakes project, then I think that 80k could buy a lot of content on some of the really cool existing projects that have languished on the back burner. I'm dieing to see your project z32 and V8 RX-7 movinng closer to where your b15 spec V is.

Alex: Allen from Tomei sent me an email with the CyberEVO's best time. It was a 54.392 that Tarzan cranked out at last year's Revspeed Super Battle.

@Mike: In stock trim the GT-R (non v-spec), laps Tsukuba in about 1:05.XXX.
Other tuned GT-R can lap Tsukuba in 0.58-0.59.

@Eric: I don't recall the Cyber Evo ever dipping into the 53.XXX. Taniguchi is the only one that broke into the 53.XXX as far as I know. Then again, the Cyber Evo cost what? $100,000? And it's ran by a dentist ! and like u said, the HKS Evo CR230R alone is around half a million. The TBR-02 was a little less, and that sweet Altezza......well a shit load more.

Yeah, I think the Cyber Evo needs a proper roll-cage....lol, and some decent suspensions.
If I had $80K laying around Mike, I would buy a Radical SR8 :D. Slap some slick on and go to town :)
http://www.radicalsportscars.com/

i would like you guys to do a LOcost caterham clone, with all the suspension genius you have there it could be a potent track car. the builds can be relatively inexpensive. i know this isnt a kit car site or anything but i figured if alex pfiffer has one maybe its worth a look. just my .02

I've been dreaming of a mid-engine "Locost" that has heavy influence from Group C and LMP cars. Over 1 ton of downforce... so hot... MMMmmmmmm

Maybe when I get a proper workshop I'll take on a project like that.

One of the problems is that the resident suspension guy doesn't like those sorts of cars.

Eric, What is your take on the modification level of the Gar Rev FD?... and how that car fits into the "time attack scene"?

Very curious to see what you think about that car and where it fits....

I think somebody on the MotoIQ staff refers to LOCOSTs as "Gheyterhams". I think they are pretty cool if done right. The fabricator at Cosworth just built one from the Haynes manual, but he used a Mazda MZR with some Cosworth tweaks and a dry sump.

Nik: To me, the ideal unlimited/pro/super modified time attack car is if everything between the the factory front shock towers, rear shock towers, roof, and floor are present. It should also retain the factory A, B, C pillars and firewall. Anything added ON these parts (e.g. tubes) would be fine, but they should not be cut out or relocated. I think tunnels are ok for driveshafts, but the floor pan should be left unmolested otherwise. Outside of these qualifications for what I consider to be a legit time attack car, any other modifications are game. It's not a deal breaker, but I think time attack cars should be on DOT rubber also. I haven't seen ultra detailed pictures of the Gar Rev FD, but from what I have seen, it does appear to have all of my qualifications as a legit time attack car. This opinion could change immediately if I saw the car in person though. Either way the car looks like there was a massive amount of attention to detail. I think that is where the car shines.

Erik: check out these pics...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3612/3372631838_aaf6867c84_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3630/3371810551_8df6e513bf_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/3945990085_71e8172a1e_b.jpg

I don't know enough about the FD chassis, to tell whether the OE shock towers are in their OE location, or if they've been cut and welded back in. It looks like the front frame rails are still in place.. but again, tough to tell for sure..

Biggest thing I see is the lack of an OE floor...

Nicholas, the Revolution FD3 is legit. It has an EXTENSIVE cage, but the front shock tower are retained, and only gusset plates have been added on (much like the SSE). The firewall was not molested either (it runs a 13b).
The cage protrude thru the firewall and it ties in in multiple spots on the front shock tower.
The A-B pillar are left untouched as well.
The tunnel has been modified to accept the Hewland Seq.
Dino from Speedhunters took quite a bit of pics.
I'll see if I can find the links n post 'em up.

They could have welded to floor pan back in, but that's probably unlikely. So I change my opinion from legit time attack car to questionable. From what it looks like the car is a tube frame car built around the remains of a unibody and it doesn't fit into my personal ideal time attack car image. Should it be allowed to run with full unibody cars like I describe above (e.g. Sierra Sierra EVO)? Probably not, but the time attack "spirit" of the Gar Rev FD is definitely present. When I say spirit I refer to the following:

- the car is privately funded by the owner of a small tuning shop
- the car is built by the employees and owner of a small tuning shop
- the car is the embodiment of the imagination, hard work, and knowledge of the shop
- the car is the embodiment of the pride of Garage Revolution

Time attack in Japan has always been a run what you brung type of event without many rules. Since the Japanese usually do not go insane (with the exception of the HKS Altezza), it has usually worked out. While the Gar Rev FD definitely tips more toward the wilder side of things, it seems rather mild in comparison to say for example Chris Rado's AWD Scion tC doesn't it? There are no front wings, there's no exhaust pipe coming out of the hood, it doesn't have 12" wheels with 335 section tires all around, it doesn't run 60 psi of boost, etc, etc.

To understand the mentality of the JDM time attack scene, perhaps one needs to understand and know what it is like to A) own and operate a tuning shop, B) take 100% absolute pride in your car, and C) pour your heart, soul, blood, sweat, tears, and every freaking moment of free time you have into your shop's time attack car. Those guys at Gar Rev probably worked plenty of 15-16 hour days working on customer cars during the day and then the carbon FD at night without overtime (Japanese style). When Gar Rev rolls their FD out to a time attack, they are bringing it out for one thing: to smoke the shit out of everybody else. The Japanese use terms like "attack", "super battle", "fight", etc. because that is what the owners of these tuning shops are doing. They are letting their cars do the attacking, battling, and fighting via expression of their shop's abilities. You really do have to understand to some degree the Japanese culture to truly understand Japanese time attack. Maybe I'm breaking it down too much, but I genuinely believe this. The owners of the tuning shops build these fast cars not only because its good for business, but it is also a matter of pride within an industry. In the US, shops go to win events so they can go and brag on some dumb ass forums so they can get more people to quote package deals for them (aka low ball the shit out of another shop). In Japan, it is real life, in person pride.

Ok anyway, moving on: but where do you draw the line for these types of controversial cars? I'm cool with the fact the Gar Rev FD isn't active in a professional race series. I still say the line should be drawn with active race cars (e.g. ACS Mustang, GMG Porsches, etc.). Would I protest the Gar Rev FD at a time attack? I don't know if I would protest, but I would let the governing body know what I thought about the way the car was built. If the governing body's rule book said I could not cut out the floor and I needed 26 tubes in my roll cage, then the Gar Rev FD better fucking have those same things despite the JDM time attack explanation above. That whole paragraph above goes out the fucking door once the car leaves Japan. If they are at the same race I'm at outside of Japan, their car better be scrutinized by the same rules I built my car to.

Regardless, I think the Gar Rev FD is probably one os the best built FDs on the planet. It is just a plain bad ass FD regardless of whether or not it fits into my ideal time attack car envelope.

Alex, put up the link to Dino's pics. I would love to check out the car more.

Eric, I wholeheartedly embrace their philosophy and what you posted above.

Check this R34. Run by two small shops (Garage Ito and Pro-Stock).
Owned by a privateer. This car does represent the epitome of the Japanese tuning.
I let the pictures speak for themselves:
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2010/03/04/car-feature-gt-gt-garage-ito-with-prostock-gt-r.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage

Eric, here are few pictures I found from their blog:
http://revo-tune.jp/
On the lower-right corner of the site they've got a flickr account with tons of pics of the car. Here are some close up:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36353006@N07/4192682366/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36353006@N07/4192683282/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36353006@N07/4197219650/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36353006@N07/4196466837/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36353006@N07/4197222228/in/photostream/

And here are some pictures that are gonna make you hate this FD....lol
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=184120

If you haven't read it already, here is what Ian baker told the Revolution guys today:
http://www.7tune.com/2010-tas-spotlight-hankook-revolution-fd3s/

im enjoying this conversation. i wonder what the other crew chiefs think of this car. have we invited them to this conversation? if not the locost what about the ariel atom?

Alex: I've seen the Garage Ito car. It isn't half the car the Gar Rev FD is unfortunately. The R34 is kind of your typical balls out tuning shop car where they attempt to make everything all light and trick and then basically use the wack ass factory suspension geometry (e.g. Weld S14). All that work for damn near nothing. It all looks ultra cool though. The Gar Rev FD uses dual A-Arms, trick uprights, and open wheel Formula car alignment plates. Right there alone it clobbers the shit out of the R34 both in theory and lap times.

Frank: I'm not a crew chief these days. I'm just the engine guy for Sierra Sierra. I think both the Locost and Atoms suffer from the lack of aerodynamics (the Atom more perhaps). I remember last year there was a guy with an Atom at Fontana with a supercharged F20 in it. Sounds like it would kick ass in theory right? The lack of body panels to control airflow made it only moderately quick. I'm sure driver skill or car prep could have been an issue too, but it wasn't that fast on the oval either.

Yeah I brought out the R34 Garage Ito because (aside from all the custom Ikeya Formula suspension bits), the chassis is fairly unmolested.
I would love to see them racing it at Tsukuba, or even at the next World Time Attack next year.

Another car that needs to put up or shut up is the yellow M-Speed R34 (with green-Mag TE37).
That R34 looks like a good contender to the Cyber Evo, or Barry's Advan R34.
Someone shoot an email to them and invite those folks.
The more the merrier.

Eric, Have you seen the new Ariel Atom V8.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/16/video-autocar-reviews-the-ariel-atom-v8/

With the new front and rear wing it looks like a mini F1 car.

"The V8 Atom produces 900 horsepower per ton. By comparison, the Bugatti Veyron produces around 530 horsepower per ton."

I've never seen the Ariel Atom V8. No doubt it is FAF (fast as fcuk). I wonder if the Hartley V8 is reliable. Has anybody heard anything about these engines? They cost $28,000. They are based on joining two Suzuki Hayabusa engines together as a 75 degree odd fire V8 with a billet block.

http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562069.htm

The Atom V8 looks like a very very fun toy but I really don't consider it a "Production" car when there are only 25 and they are only street legal in some places. Even a Mclaren F1 at 100 is not a "production" car either if they are all going to end up in the hands of a few wealthy cocksuckers like Jay Leno. There should be some standard like the car must have sold at least a 1000 units or something. I mean you can hand make 2 race cars, slap a label on it, and call it a "production" car if you really wanted to.

I agree that people shouldn't tear the shit out of their cars in the quest for speed because then they're really not racing that car anymore, but just a shell of it.

What cracks me up is when they call funny cars, Impala, Charger, John Force in his Auto Club Mustang. What the hell do those production cars have to do with a 4 second funny car!

I guess the same could be said about a tube frame race car with, insert production car body panels of choice, in time attack.

Lol at Jim's comment.
The same thing can be said about NASCAR....lol
Camry, Taurus, Impala and so forth.
If I were you guys, I would look into the Radical SR8...haha