posted on November 03, 2010 00:26
This power chart should obviously only be used as a guideline for turbo selection. Check back on BorgWarner's EFR site in the near future for an extremely in depth turbo sizing app. You forum nerds are going to have plenty to argue about when that's released.
Did you know that BorgWarner is currently the largest OEM turbocharger supplier in the world? The BW turbo brands also include BorgWarner, KKK (Kuhnle, Kopp & Kausch, not the cone heads), and Schwitzer. Despite being as big as they are, BW is planning the release of the Series EFR turbos designed specifically for the performance aftermarket and racing. For the past year, Brock (aka Brockstar) and his team of engineers and techs have been hard at work developing the EFR product line. This is extremely fast for a company the size of BW with very stringent design and manufacturing standards. BW isn't a 5 person shop that copies a Garrett compressor wheel, rescales it in CAM software so there's an infinite amount of trims available, hogs one out of aluminum bar stock on a CNC machine and then proceeds to stuff it into virtually any compressor housing without compressor or turbine mapping (let's not forget about giving these hogged out turbos nonsensical names while they were at it). BW products must go through extremely stringent OEM style durability testing and multiple validations before product release. So a complete line of turbochargers released in about a year is actually light speed for a company the size of BW.
Here's an EFR on a high temperature gas rig that constantly increases gases to 950 degrees C and then cools the gases to 200 degrees C. This is one of the tests performed for 175 hours to validate the turbine section's durability.
Here's a BW EFR being tested with a Cosworth 2.6L stroker EJ257B engine.
Cosworth was selected by BW as one of their pre-release testing partners to supply additional feedback, expanded real world application testing, and in the case of the Sierra Sierra EVO, a real world application in torturous conditions. With our ultra repeatable engine dyno test cells, small displacement high performance gasoline engine knowledge, and involvement with the Sierra Sierra EVO, the partnership just made sense. Perhaps Cosworth's involvement in high level motorsports and a potential Global Racing Engine release had something to do with it? Regardless, it was perfect timing for the Peformance Parts division of Cosworth since we were already starting to plan a line of high end turbo hardware and setup kits for the serious customer base. Whether on the engine dyno, in CAD, plugged into an engine simulation, or in the workshop physically test fitting the turbos on engines/cars, these past couple months at Cosworth in Torrance, the product development team has been working a lot with various prototype EFR turbos. As a result, Cosworth will be including BW EFR turbos in future “set up kits” and bolt on turbos. The set up kits will be targeted toward the medium/high power customer having his car built at a shop that can add the finishing touches such as fuel system, tuning, etc. The bolt ons will be using EFR centers, but with Cosworth designed turbine housings for direct fit applications. So far I'm very impressed with the hardware and the feature set. You'll be able to read a list of features anywhere, but I'm going to break down the features to you Beyond the Dyno style.
Here's a prototype EFR 7670 adapted to the factory EVO X exhaust manifold via adapter that maintains the advantage of twin scrolls. The adapter is also a prototype that we made at Cosworth in an attempt to test a potentially "reasonable" cost turbo upgrade. Optimizing gas flow is tricky with adapters, but the dyno tells all and the engine is scheduled to go back on the engine dyno in late December. If the adapter sucks then we will not be offering the adapter. In fact, it is unlikely that we will because we (as in Tyler and I) don't believe it will perform to our satisfaction. But I've been fooled by perception many times: THE DYNO TELLS ALL. The Cosworth engine dynos that is...
BTW, the EFR turbos are at the higher end of the aftermarket turbocharger price spectrum. The reason why is because they are so feature rich. The idea is that by using an EFR turbo, you'll end up saving some money at the end of the day by not having to purchase external items such as blow off valves, wastegate solenoids, wastegates, and paying for labor using difficult to work with turbochargers. As I wrote before, the EFR turbos are a clean sheet design specifically designed for flexibility during installation which is worth a bunch to the DIY enthusiast, tuning shop, or engine builder in itself. If you're a low buck turbo guy, you'll probably want to stop reading here. If you look for quality and don't mind spending a premium then keep reading.
Wednesday, November 03, 2010 6:35 AM
Looking forward to 6255. Thanks for the very detailed write-up.
Wednesday, November 03, 2010 7:01 AM
I've always said "If you can't afford to do it right in the first place, when are you going to be able to afford to fix it?"
I'd say that statement applies to these turbos here. The integrated blow-off valve thing is really cool, and it makes me wonder why not many other turbo manufacturers do this.
If I ever decide to build a high-reliability turbo motor again, I'm going with one of these!
Wednesday, November 03, 2010 8:59 AM
Hmm, my Disco Potato is only a year old, so it's not worth upgrading right now, but in the future when there's more selection and I'm in the market for a new one, I'll definitely keep this in mind. I suppose the other big companies like Garrett will be working hard to catch up with this turbo series.
Any word if BW will make a version of these turbos with fewer features? Maybe without the included CV fittings and turbo speed sensor fittings? It sounds like a lot of these features are great for a race car pushing the envelope, but for someone like me who needs reliability and simplicity, I could do without a lot of the bells and whistles. It sounds like this would also shrink down the size of the turbo a little bit. So, will there be a future release of simpler EFR turbos sometime in the future? I'd like the advanced design and efficiency upgrades, but I don't need the fancy bits (though they are sweet as hell).
Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:54 AM
I'm still new to the intricacies of a many a turbo system, but it seems like Borg Warner is mixing some old school with new school tech?
So they are going back to the internal wastegate by utilizing the CRV as an anti-lag system, but are they losing adjustability by using an internal wastegate?
I thought that's why manufacturers switched to external WGs, in order to have adjustability and therefore decrease lag in that manner of 'tuning'?
I apoligize for being "noobish", but I'm trying to understand the pros and cons of the EFR turbos. My biggest selling point is the simplicity by internalizing the WG, BOV, etc.
Thanks Eric, keep up the good info, keep us inspired and please let us know any follow-up on the EFR real-world testing!
Wednesday, November 03, 2010 2:26 PM
The diaphragm used in the BW CRV is actually the same part that BW has sold millions of to the OEMs and were designed to last the life of the car
mhpf... vw uses a diaphragm CRV on the new 155kw 2liter... but this thing is the crap... a little mapping and the diaphragm is gone... but porsche uses an "old skool" piston CRV (direct bolt on) thats muchmuch better...
btw the VW CRV seat in the stock IHI turbo looks quite the same ...
Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:28 PM
Hey Eric, Just wondering which of these turbos you think would suit a rb26 or rb28 time attack car? I emailed your old XS engineering account but I don't think you use it anymore.
Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:32 PM
Stunned by the level of materials, design, and quality. The Ti-Al wheel looks incredible, I can only imagine what that does for responsiveness. Your analogy about FW hits home, dropping the 33 lbs of dual mass FW off my G Coupe's VQ35DE and replacing with 11lbs of JWT goodness and matched Stage 2+ clutch, wow. That alone woke up the motor so much >4-5k rpm, I had a hard time staying off the limiter (until I raised it to 7400 via my COBB AP). It's hard to imagine losing 2 blades has zero impact on eff, but I can see how it could.
Nice article and appreciate breaking it down to something I can comprehend.
Wednesday, November 03, 2010 7:21 PM
I held a Gamma-Ti wheel in my hands today compared to an Inconnel and the weight difference really was huge.
Jeff, I'm with you on the 6255 it would make all the power I'd need with a pair of those strapped to my Z32TT and provide excellent boost response.
Thursday, November 04, 2010 9:00 AM
All of this info is pretty exciting!
Does BW Plan on releasing any exhaust housings with Exhaust Vband Inlets? The same or similar as a TiAL Housing, or Garrett motorsports?
I really like the turbo speed sensor casting! Something that cost a little money to setup, but costs soo little to always include in every turbo.... Brilliant!
Lastly I am sure pricing is loose right now but are we expecting similar to a Garrett GT series turbo, like say within 20%ish or are these turbos significantly more?
Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:04 AM
Der Bruce: Alot of this technology has been around, but its never been integrated all into one package.
In the past internal wg turbos were all derived from OEM requirements. Therefore they were only designed for an OEM application. BW takes things a step further by enlarging the internal wastegates to suit high flow gasoline situations. There's plenty of adjustability even with internal wgs.
Super Dude: it would depend on your engine configuration, car weight, and gearing. As a starting point, I'd probably recommend the 8374.
Ryan@VEX: There are other housing configurations that will be released in the future. These are the housing configurations for the initial release. Its likely you will see some v-band inlet turbines in the near future. If not from BW, they might be from another company that starts with COS.
Pricing is not 100% firm yet, but expect MSRP to be within 25% of the Garrett GT MSRP.
Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:24 AM
I've included more images on page 1 and page 2. Check them out ya'll.
Friday, November 05, 2010 7:36 AM
Awesome write up Eric! I can't wait to use these things!
Friday, November 05, 2010 9:57 AM
Borg Warners turbo matching app is online. Fun to play with.
Saturday, November 06, 2010 8:00 PM
Excellent write up, thanks you very much for sharing all of the info. It looks like there is a pretty extreme angle on the BW turbo in the picture of the Cosworth test engine on the dyno, however I noticed at the Cosworth display at SEMA the angle was greatly reduced. Have you hear how steep the BW turbo can "safely" be tilted when thinking of a manifold design? IIRC many othe rBB turbos can go up to 15 degrees.
Sunday, November 07, 2010 9:00 AM
This is very nice! I just have two questions, will they be releasing symetrically opposed turbos like HKS has done with the gt800 kit for the gtr?
And since some of these turbos are dual scroll, is there any benefit in dual scroll for a v6 engine running a TT setup
Sunday, November 07, 2010 11:21 AM
These were the single most interesting thing I saw at the entire SEMA show!
Sunday, November 07, 2010 7:04 PM
For a V6, you can use a twin-scroll for a single turbo setup. Or just go with a pair of single scroll turbos.
Sunday, November 07, 2010 10:52 PM
induetime: On the Cosworth dyno engine there is a bit of an extreme angle, but this is possible because 1) the engine isn't in a car and does not see various grades of hill and 2) the engine is dry sumped so there is actually vacuum in the crankcase at all times. BW does not recommend any on axis installation angle because cars will see various grade hills on the road and track. However, the oil drain can be installed a maximum angle of 20 degrees from vertical.
Tarik: There will be no benefit to using twin twin scroll turbos due to firing order and the number of cylinders. BUT, twin turbos in itself is already theoretically a twin scroll as you would have two turbine housings. It would depend on the firing order of the engine to see if there is benefit for the twin turbos, but twin turbos already benefit from having smaller wheels with lower inertia and quicker spool. Also what spdracerut said would apply when using a single twin scroll turbo on a V6.
Monday, November 08, 2010 12:55 PM
So I was looking at the chart up top for the EFR7670 that you are testing for the EvoX. Looks like its good for 360ish to 600ish hp. I have to ask what you will probably see as a noob/ricer question... but here goes. At 400-450 hp (how much ever boost it will take to make that on this turbo), how much spool do you expect it will lose to the oem turbo? Or are these turbo's so badass that a turbo capable of 600 hp should spool close to stock? Also, will this turbo retain good part throttle response or will it get the same on/off switch feel to it when you put a bigger turbo on a small displacement engine?
You kept saying that these turbo's will be expensive. Is it possible to give us a ballpark figure? Is it possible for the 7670 to be had for around 2k?
Thursday, November 11, 2010 6:45 PM
I'm excited to see the upcoming V-band inlet turbine housings as well as the factory fitment turbos(especially the Subaru fitment turbos!)
Saturday, November 13, 2010 12:36 AM
spdracerut: i understand, thanks.
eric hsu: it's a Z32, 1-2-3-4-5-6 is the firing order. i'll be in the market for turbos soon, namely the size of 2860 rs's and i'm looking around to see what would be the best turbos because i don't have the money to build an engine to support 3076's or front mount 40's yet.
and these EFR's look like they are they are the best of the bunch, besides just getting a GTX 2860 when it's available.
i also don't know if these EFR turbos will just bolt up to the T25 flange MSP or AMS mani's
Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:46 PM
Tarik: If these are able to be bolted on to a MSP mani, you won't be able to fit a DP to them. The V-band flange sits an inch further rearward than the flange of a Garrett. The driver side turbo is already pretty close to the firewall.
New manifolds will probably be needed to fit these on a Z32, unless some sort of adaptor can be fitted to a MSP manifold to properly position the turbo.
Wednesday, December 01, 2010 10:35 AM
Those compressor wheels are absolutely gorgeous!
Sunday, December 19, 2010 3:26 PM
As usual an awesome write up, very educational, and great pics. I'm not sure if they will fit under the hood of my project but I intend to take a close look at them.
Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:54 AM
I was lucky enough to do some testing on one of the early EFR turbos. Used a 6258 for about 6 months of track days and daily driving. Great turbos if you can get your hands on them!!!
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