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Mike Kojima posted on March 07, 2010 19:00 

More insidious are some of the other bad side effects that excessive body motion can produce. Many softly sprung vehicles will roll over and bottom out the suspension on one end or even both ends of the car when cornering hard. This shocks the tires and will cause an instant loss of traction on the end of the car that first bottoms out resulting in unpredictable handling. If the suspension bottoms under a large amount of roll, a lot of weight will get transferred to the outside wheel where the suspension has bottomed causing a loss of grip.

Stroking the suspension through a wide range of travel dynamically in a turn can also result in the suspension geometry doing bad things. Most factory vehicles have compromised suspension geometry due to packaging reasons and usually two things can happen when the car really heels over in a turn, neither of them good. First the suspension can gain positive camber under roll on the outside wheels. This is worse in cars with the very common McPherson strut suspension. This when the car rolls, the tires don’t, making the outside of the tires tread tire heel over onto its shoulder, not using its full tread width effectively and tearing up the outside edge of the tread.

The other evil effect of roll is bump steer and Toe Steer. Bump steer is caused when the steering linkage and the rest of the links of the suspension travel in different arcs as the suspension moves. This is due to the steering linkage not being placed in the same geometric plane as the rest of the suspension’s control arms. Racecars are designed not to have much bump steer but production cars often have the location of the suspension’s control arms and steering links compromised by design. The result of this is that the tires can get steering input even if the steering wheel is not moved when the car heels over. The driver feels this as a car that is twitchy and unstable at the limit. Dive and squat when combined with roll can make all of these issues worse.
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| This illustrates tie rod and control arm pick up points for both McPherson strut and unequal length A arm suspension for minimal bump steer. Now go look at your car, chances are it's not going to be that close to this. When the control arms and the tie rods have different lengths and pick up locations, the steering is going to move independently of steering wheel movement and you get bump steer. This makes the car feel twitchy and unpredictable. Too much body motion means more bumpsteer. We will cover this phenomenon in more detail in future installments. |
Toe steer is like bump steer but regarding the rear tires. Excess roll causes the rear tires to be steered in a direction other than straight ahead.
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| Toe steer is geometric movement of the rear wheels steering them way from the direction of travel when the suspension moves. Here are some examples of toe steer caused by trailing arms on a beam axle and semi trailing arms. |
Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:43 PM
good article Mike. I love suspennsion geometry stuff. kinda fun to think about. It also helps me understand whats happening while I'm driving. In turn making me a better driver.
Monday, March 08, 2010 1:58 AM
I'm liking this article series. I'm wanting to know more about shock and spring tuning. Also what makes certain adjustable shocks good and others junk.
Monday, March 08, 2010 1:23 PM
I'm a bit confused... with double wishbone suspensions that gain negative camber in a roll, wouldn't we want at least a little body roll? For that kind of suspension, do you tune it to have some roll while minimizing bump/toe steer?
Monday, March 08, 2010 1:45 PM
Theoretically you would not want much if any roll but the suspension would not work well for absorbing bumps, hence the development of active suspension for F1 and other venues before it got banned. So no, you don't tune for roll, roll is the byproduct of having suspension.
Monday, March 08, 2010 3:44 PM
So is there a perfect design? Or do all designs and geometries have their pros and cons and you just have to compromise to find the best middle ground? Are even F1 teams with multi-million dollar budgets having to throw in some compromise somewhere too?
Monday, March 08, 2010 4:04 PM
You should start a school so people like me could pay you to teach us this shit!
Monday, March 08, 2010 4:30 PM
There is no perfect suspension design. All of them have compromises. The unequal length A arm is probably the best. I am not a fan of most multi--links.
Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:14 AM
Hey Jason, while you're waiting for the more detailed explanation of dampers and what makes a good adjustable damper and what makes a bad one, you could read something I wrote to get the basics: http://www.sr20-forum.com/suspension/24698-opinions-wanted-those-agx-road-magnet-setup.html#post319188 Hey Mike, while I have you, you should shed some light on this (non suspension related) if you can. Tunerlifestyletv is not really doing their job. http://www.sr20-forum.com/general-sr20/28761-tunerlifestyletv-interviewing-mike-kojima-post-your-questions.html
Tuesday, March 09, 2010 8:46 AM
They are supposed to interview me soon. That what I know. As for the P10 I don't have one! All of my cars started off as Nissan dollar cars and they never gave me a P10. The P10 is better but there are few shells and few parts avalible and everything would need to be custom made. Our project P10 does quite well and hold the FWD SR20 lap record at Willow Springs. Anyone who knows me knows I don't care for autocross, I think its boring.
Wednesday, March 10, 2010 7:46 PM
a well put together article mike.really learn alot.this site is the best on the net right now.

Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:26 PM
I have a hard determining front & rear bump steer in my Z32. The front adjustable upper control arms, tension rods, TEIN suspension, & rear upper control arms, traction arms can have a large potential to make things worse if adjusted improperly. I realize an alignment rack would be ideal however straight labor time on a rack can get pricey pretty quick. Four hours can blow by before you realize it. What would be a cost effective way to measure bump-steer, and also perhaps try to explain to readers what tools we can use (make or buy) at home to measure camber, caster, toe, etc....? (talking ballpark figures, just enough to drive around without toasting tires to the alignment shop for a final check). A lot of choices (mostly bad ones) can be made with what type of alignment strategy you use. I get so many different answers on what to do it gives me a headache. I know there isn't a one all great alignment spec, however a street, track, or weekend warrior spec would probably be easier to explain. If you could Mike can you please include some example alignment specs of your project vehicles to give readers some perspective on the difference between different setups for track and street use. Perhaps some tips on what changes to make first and last would be helpful. An example might look like. 1) establish street, track, or weekend warrior type setup 2) determine correct spring rate(s). 2) establish proper ride height 4) etc....... 5) etc.......
Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:04 PM
Alignment specs are always in our applicable project vehicles. What you wish is coming in this series. To measure bump steer you can simply measure toe in several places in the suspension stroke. I use a gage especially made for it but you could do it with toe plates.
 
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