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Mike Kojima posted on December 31, 2011 00:00 

Building the Long Rod Nissan SR20VE Engine
By Mike Kojima and Chuck Johnson
We last left off our SR20VE engine repair job with Port flow Design fixing our head. Read about that here! Since our broken valve chopped up one of our pistons, we decided to go through the engine's bottom end at this time. Since we have been editorially discussing the effects of running a longer connecting rod at MotoIQ lately, what a better place to try a longer connecting rod than our race motor! Check out Khiem Dinh’s excellent article on the subject here!
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| Here is a chart showing the effect of a longer rod on piston acceleration over degrees of crank rotation. |
We researched economical ways to do this by perusing the rod dimensions from other motors. We did not want to order custom rods for cost and timing reasons so we figured we could find a rod/bearing combo that was close and work with that. We ended up settling on the rods from a Honda H22 Prelude motor. The H22 rod is 5.630” long vs the stock SR20’s length of 5.365”. This would give a stroke to rod length ratio of 1.66:1 vs the stock 1.58:1. Not a huge difference but one that we could probably find measurable results from.
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| Here is another chart of piston displacement in bore over degrees of crank rotation, rod length being the variable. |
The big end of the Prelude rod was 2.008" in diameter and the pin end was 0.866", both of which are identical to the SR20's rod. The main difference was the rod width, the Prelude was 0.938” wide vs the SR20’s 0.894”. We could make the H22 rod work by narrowing each side of the rod’s big end by 0.022”. When looking at the Prelude rod bearing, we realized that its shell thickness was the same as the SR20’s and that it was narrow enough to not overhang the rod even after we machined its width thinner. In addition, the undercut radii on each end of the SR20 rod journals allowed the H22 bearing to fit into place without any interference issues. Add the fact that there are many H22 performance bearing options and we were sold on the Prelude rod.
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| Here is another chart comparing the effect of rod length on piston acceleration over degrees of crank rotation. |
The stock SR20DE and H22 rods are very strong and are safe for extended use at up to 8000 rpm and for a low buck motor, they are perfectly adequate. However for our goal of a very bulletproof, inexpensive build we chose some H22 Prelude ESP rods from Eagle. Eagle ESP rods are forged from 4340 steel alloy with a high nickel and chromium content. The nickel and chromium give the steel a high tensile strength, high toughness and a much improved fatigue life over high carbon and chromoly steels.
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| Another chart comparing piston velocity over degrees of crank rotation with the stroke to rod length ratio as the variable. |
Friday, September 23, 2011 7:51 AM
Cool stuff! How much were the custom pistons?
Friday, September 23, 2011 9:49 AM
Kojima really loves the WPC. Maybe you should put Dai under the treatment too for reduced wear ;) Great build. I'm sure you'll pick up a few HP when the engine is broken in and a few more with tuning. Perhaps the readers here could help compile a database of rod dimensions and other measurements to apply this same principle to other motors. A magazine a while back was putting Honda H rods into their F motor to get the same type of results as you.
Friday, September 23, 2011 10:46 AM
You guys need to stop putting FEA "results" up on this webpage like that. There is no scaling listed, so you cannot tell if the design is strong enough to wishstand the condition as-loaded, or for how long. You have also failed to put any of the loading conditions in with the graph. Is this at TDC at 5K at 60% throttle? Is this 8 ms after falling off of a shelf? Without some background information, your FEA "results" are completely irrelevant. An engineer should know better.
Friday, September 23, 2011 12:48 PM
can you give a ball park price for WPC treatment?
Friday, September 23, 2011 2:37 PM
Warmmilk, that's why there is a link to WPC's website at the end of the article. Jeffballs, I am not the only one who loves WPC, I was skeptical until Eric, Billy Johnson and the Bergenholtz bros got me to try it and I have had nothing but good results since.

Friday, September 23, 2011 2:39 PM
bkb, JE didn't give us the scaling and loading conditions and as an engineer I don't care, why? Because JE's engineers are a hell of alot better at designing pistons than I am so the exact information is irrelevant to me as I am not going to second guess an experienced piston designing ME who does this all day for a living. I am pretty sure that they might be better at this particular task than you as well! This isn't an article about FEA so why should I bog down the article with minutia that perhaps .01% of readers would care about. It's good enough to see that there are no hotspots in the design and that JE does make use of analytic tools like FEA when a lot of the aftermarket does not. You can also see how material was removed without screwing up the design as well by looking at the pics. However we will be doing articles about JE's design process in the future so maybe I might include some of that data. On the other hand probably not unless I write an article on FEA.
Friday, September 23, 2011 3:35 PM
Yeah, I personally don't need EVERYTHING to be quantified and yet still found the FEA information useful (pictures = COOL)! Mike - I like how you guys can go to such great lengths to give us a detailed look at a long rod build and yet someone still picks you apart :( I was worried about consumption when you guys mentioned the piston wall clearance but it's nice to see only 6% thus far. Please keep us updated on that front! Don't forget, unless WPC updated their site, prices won't be found there.
Friday, September 23, 2011 3:42 PM
Yeah if you look at the back links, there is quite a lot of painful detail that can be found. I dunno about prices, people expect us to be walking catalogs of whatever, its hard enough to write this stuff, check out the web site, pick up the phone, do something, I am not going to look up stuff for you, I am on to the next thing already!
Friday, September 23, 2011 4:01 PM
Would this rod fit in an SR20DE? Obviously you would still need to narrow the Prelude rods, but are the pistons also compatible? Or are they custom fit for the VE engine?
Friday, September 23, 2011 4:02 PM
Yes if you did everything the same, it would work for a DE as well.
Friday, September 23, 2011 4:22 PM
OKAY people, I got off my keester, overcame the anxiety of calling a stranger and met Izumi from WPC on the phone. A wonderfully nice, soft-spoken man (I had to ask him to spell his name twice)! I just asked for a few reference points. WPC treatment of a set of pistons typically runs $40-50 depending on the size of piston and rod journals are typically $4 per half. All seems very reasonable (just read Mike's thoughts here and search WPC on Motoiq for more of his evidence based observations), especially with just 3 business days expected for turn around! That's fast lay people! Mike - Speaking of "on to the next thing", PLEASE don't forget to fill in those blanks on that one thing from that one dude ;)
Friday, September 23, 2011 4:29 PM
@bkb001 I am a NERD, but you just took it to the outer realm of 0 entertainment and learning value. This website is for people like me who never finished engineering school, but works as a mechanic, and still loves to sctrach the surface and learn more about fabrication, and what goes into the engines I assembly from the parts I purchase. Please Do NOT be a DB. :) Thanks Mike and Chuck! awesome article!
Friday, September 23, 2011 5:32 PM
Not trying to be a DB, just trying to point out that those graphs are missing a lot of information. If I didn't know JE pistons, anyone that knew the CAD package could make up a graph just like that without doing any analysis or engineering at all and it could just as easily succeed or fail spectacularly. They are pretty to look at, but literally less useful than just saying "FEA tools were used in the design of the pistons". Again, not trying to be a pain, I'm an engineer. The old sticker I saw said "In God we trust, all others bring data". JE shouldn't be excluded from that, and there are no data there.
Friday, September 23, 2011 5:39 PM
I guess we should have included that and we should change the name of this place to automotivewhitepaper.com. I kinda thought the most important part about this article was the effect of a longer connecting rod. I was tripping out on the details of the piston when I got it so we wrote a lot about its features.
Friday, September 23, 2011 5:40 PM
Oh yeah the pics are pretty so I stuck them in. I am not ragging on you bkb, just trying to be funny.
Friday, September 23, 2011 6:58 PM
I love this article, period. I can't recall ever hearing of anyone using Honda rods in a Nissan motor before. As far as all this engineering mumbo jumbo goes, cmon give it a rest. MotoIQ is still giving you better info than any other source on the internet even though it doesn't have 20gbs of computer data on a new piston. If the article doesn't have enough information for you why don't you make your own website and load it up with all the info you can dig up on a custom piston? Better yet, design a better one, find a company (hopefully one that won't rip off your design and sell it on ebay) that can build a run of them and sell them for a profit!
Friday, September 23, 2011 7:01 PM
OK, consider the rest given. I'll leave you all alone. I just can't stand when engineering tools are misused so badly. I saw the same deal when looking at wheels a few articles back. I'll keep reading, at least some of the stuff, but I'll keep my opinions to myself, since that seems to be the prevailing opinion. Have fun folks, enjoy your pretty graphs.
Friday, September 23, 2011 9:23 PM
Interesting to see that the VE has a half-counterweighted crank, I wasn't aware. Obviously it hasn't caused any problems while at high rpm. Very interesting to hear about the H22, rod, I'd like to see someone use these in a DET or Hybrid VET and see the powerband results. Love the asymmetrical pistons too. Great article in general. C'mon bkb, no need to get offended here. I think it reasonable that we can trust JE with designing a proper piston.

Saturday, September 24, 2011 10:30 AM
@bkb, if you want to write an article related to FEA tool useage, I'm sure Mike would be more than happy to publish it. As for this article, it's not a design review on the piston, it's about creating a long rod SR20. I look at FEA reports on turbine housings and compressor wheels once in a while, and 20 pages of stress analysis makes for really dry content that 98% of the audience could care less for. In the piston images in this article, even without knowing the loading or scaling, you can still see the areas of higher stress. Those areas are also the areas you expect being in the side skirt and the fillet radii in the cavity on the backside of the piston. In those areas, there are no rapid changes in stress. As no scale is provided, you can use the sharp edge of the pin bore as the reference point/stress which you'd fully expect to have the highest stress concentration (high load, sharpe edge). Seeing how no other points in the piston come even close to the stress seen there is a good sign.
Saturday, September 24, 2011 10:50 AM
Hey, Bruce, thanks for calling on prices. That is VERY reasonable. Unfortunately, I'm not doing an engine build any time soon, but does WPC provide a benefit for other parts, as well, like suspension?
Saturday, September 24, 2011 11:02 AM
Looking at the FEA output it's obvious that it's on the power stroke and ATDC a bit. If you wanted to get stupid you could get the power and go backwards to approximate the load but I think I will take JE's word for it because I want to do some other stuff today.
Saturday, September 24, 2011 11:04 AM
Dusty, WPC works anywhere you need something metal to be more slippery and/or to increase the fatigue strength. WPC can be use on close tolerance delicate metal surfaces, softer metals and is non dimensional.

Saturday, September 24, 2011 11:12 AM
Here is my .02 about the article. First of all, THANKS for sharing Mike, it's always a plasure to read your nerdy stuff, FOR FREE! I wasn't aware of the H rods fitting into the SR20, but I am not surprised. There are many companies out there that share common #'s with other companies. As far as bkb initial comment goes; here is how I see it: He does have a good point, the FEA graph do not show whether the piston is under load, how much load, how many revolution per minute, or any of that stuff, so we all should take it with a grain of salt. BUT !!! It shows the most stressed area (green in this case) whereas the blue area have insignificant stress. Now I am not an engineer, so...I would assume that as the piston ramps up the load, so would the colored area. In other words, the blue area would turn green, and the green area would turn yellow. (there's no orange or red area, and maybe that's due to the fact that the piston was tested at low RPM or low load, again an assumption). Another reason why I think JE Piston (the company) did not share with Mike the FEA graphs with load, higher revolution, or given #'s, it's probably because JE doesn't want other companies to copy their designs (which is understandable). Anyway, that's my take regarding the FEA graphs. One question Mike: you guys reached 208hp with a 11.0:1 compression, that is impressive! How come you decided to bump up the compression to only 11.0:1? I mean, you could have bump it up safely to 11.5:1 and still run piss-California-gas and a fairly aggressive tuning.
Saturday, September 24, 2011 11:59 AM
I am a cheap ass and want to race on pump fuel and it won't run safely on 91 octane on the track at 11.5:1. I am also lazy and hate working on cars so I don't want to make something edgy. The car is really well rounded and currently handles and brakes better than anything in TU class except for the Honda's of Edo and Andy and it has more power than those cars so it is completive against them. It also give me an excuse to cry about if I lose to the APD TSX or the Fontana SE-R or the G20 because they all have more power.... I guess I want to spend more time driving and less time messing with my car and I don't care if I am slightly less competitive.
Saturday, September 24, 2011 12:41 PM
@bkb no need to keep your opinions to yourself the comments are welcome. Mike tends to get a little defensive because he really has to work hard on dumbing most of this stuff down for guys like me. It seems you have no problem with it. Focusing the site into too much more detail would frankly make this stuff way to boring even for us who are enthusiasts but far from engineers. Finally I think your questions would be great to bring up in the forums when asked politely. If it's the data your interested in I'm sure it could be provided. If you just want to take jabs at our publication that's far more technical than other automotive publications that's your prerogative.
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 10:59 AM
Yep. Ask for the data points, and you will likely receive them. Tell someone they failed and that their graphs were useless, and you'll probably get an argument. Like all things in life, inflection can change an innocuous request into a full-blown argument.
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 12:17 PM
Im impressed with your catalog browsing skills H22 rods in a SR is genius, I will be using this trick and hoping JE keeps that program on hand...however i only want 9 or 9.5:1 compression... RWD long rod SR20VET here we come
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 12:50 PM
How well would this work at 88mm and the same rods !
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 12:54 PM
And maybe little higher compression? In my nx2000!
Tuesday, September 27, 2011 5:50 PM
I am sorta worried about 88mm because I have had cylinder wall failure at around 530 hp with 87mm and if you cut the block in half the liner is pretty thin. It might be ok NA but i don't want to be the first to try it on a race engine! SR's don't really like higher compression for long periods of time on pump gas. My 11.6:1 street engine had detonation pitting on the piston crown. It had no audible detonation either and a sort of conservative tune.
Friday, September 30, 2011 12:33 PM
Is this car tuend on the stock ECU and was the tune changed for the long rod setup?
 
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