Wes
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Wisconsin
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| 05-16-2012 07:13 AM |
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Just a thread to discuss this project if anyone feels the urge. I am referring to this project as Project A.A.A.K.! The goal is to build a car that is an all around ass kicker. Linear usable power, good brakes, compliant yet track worthy suspension, and a decent stereo. Yes that's right, because I drive the car a lot I want a good stereo!
So if you want to discuss this project post in here... |
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jeffball610
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| 05-21-2012 10:47 AM |
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Are you going to throw in a 4G63 cause the Subaru motor sucks! However, they do look nice and track well. Have you laid out any plans as to what you are going to tackle first? I would assume tires and suspension would be the starting point. Post up some ideas or progress. There's tons of Subie fans out there even if I'm not one. |
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Grant Borman
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| 05-21-2012 05:07 PM |
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Judging by the short list of things it needs including a stereo i bet the oem drivetrain will work well for him.
Im not a subie fan either but you have got to give it to GST and their impreza. They are getting times close to Siera Siera and they have probably blown up more 4g63's than the rest of the series combined. Not sure if they will be able to ever beat Siera Siera's BW CW13 time but they are giving it a good go for a fraction of the cost. |
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spdracerut
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| 05-21-2012 05:26 PM |
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4G63? Bah.. it's all about the K20  |
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RallyBob
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| 05-21-2012 05:59 PM |
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What we need is a 6-cylinder STI.
Eg33 twin turbo in an older Impreza. Over 1000 hp, street legal, on street tires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOZojYD9Qss&feature=g-hist
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urbanjacup
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| 05-22-2012 12:50 PM |
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Posted By Wes Dumalski on 05-16-2012 09:13 AM
Just a thread to discuss this project if anyone feels the urge. I am referring to this project as Project A.A.A.K.! The goal is to build a car that is an all around ass kicker. Linear usable power, good brakes, compliant yet track worthy suspension, and a decent stereo. Yes that's right, because I drive the car a lot I want a good stereo!
So if you want to discuss this project post in here...
I'm looking to continue along the lines of what Wes is doing, improve on the current turbo setup and make safe and reliable power...but nothing too extreme...
On one of the forums there is a 400whp thread stating how a lot of owners need to rethink their power goals...especially those who have never driven even a 300whp car, etc...
Hey Wes, just a FYI, my Sirius raidio improved on the current sound, but if you connect your phone via bluetooth and use one of the radio apps, it improves the quality of the stock stereo even more depending on the source...I think my friend is going to be replacing the stock speakers with Boston Acoustics or Polks...
I rather roll down the windows and listen to the exhaust all day... |
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spdracerut
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| 05-23-2012 09:15 AM |
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I upgraded the stereo in Project S2k, but I'm too lazy to go take everything apart to take pictures just to write about it. I even made sweet custom speaker brackets. Oh well, whatever. Ha. |
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urbanjacup
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Posts:181
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| 05-24-2012 05:41 AM |
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No info on chosing a bellmouth vs divorced down pipe? No discussion on how merging the wastegate and turbine discharge may cause boost creep? Even though you did mention the "necks down" area of the exhaust will eliminate boost creep...I thought the concern was concentrated more so where the down pipe bolts to the turbo...
I am highly considering a Cobb turboback exhaust...the quality of material used is very important and the overall combination of power and a less obnoxious sounding exhaust is definitely important to me...though the use of the term fart can I reserve to Hondas w/ a $2 exhaust...w/ any quality exhaust installed on the STi, the rumble that a boxer engine produces is apples and oranges compared to any 4cyl Nissan exhaust note (I own one)...this might be age talking and I'm no spring chicken...
Why not purchase a $50 Cobb heatshield? Would it not provide better protection w/ heatsoaking your TMIC than trimming your stock one? And no Cobb SF intake? (I was on the fence here w/ the sound and power it produces, but the design really concentrates on eliminating turbulence that can cause inconsistencies w/ MAF readings )...More importantly, I was really hoping to read a break down on utilizing the Cobb AP and how their boost select maps work w/ SI drive =( I've heard the debates...
Right now I have a couple of shops telling me how an opensource tune can possibly "lock up" the 08+ EMS... |
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Wes
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Wisconsin
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| 05-24-2012 08:19 AM |
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The eventual goal is 400WHP but that will take some time. The power for now is usable and honestly the rest of the car has larger shortcomings to deal with!
Steering feel needs to be addressed as well as dampers, sway bars, and the rest of the bushings. Brakes need attention as I do not liek the lack of initial bite at all.
Grant, just because I want the car to have a decent stereo it will not involve huge subwoofer boxes and the like. As an old IASCA and USAC competitor I will focus on using quality components up front in an optimized install without adding a lot of weight. I am confident any weight added will be offset by savings elsewhere.
Urban I chose the COBB because of the cast construction. I did not want a divorced setup because of the tubular construction, I was eluding to this in the article but did not specifically mention the divorced term. I was trying ti imply that but perhaps I should edit it for clarification. Project 200SX was a car that I built and time trialed with many exhaust variants including an open dump under the car after the turbo. I HATE loud exhausts on anything but a race car, the COBB is killer quite honestly. Boost creep can be introduced in multiple ways but two of the best companies used the transition to counter this. The design works.
Just re-used the OEM heat shield. It provides nice tight coverage of the bellmouth and works just fine. I could go with the COBB piece and perhaps I will in time, but for now the OEM is just fine. No intake yet as we have other plans for intercooler and such and did not want to install something we would just wind up taking out.
What do you mean by how it works with SI drive? There is only 1 map, SI drive simply limits Throttle Position. You cannot tune separate MAPS for I etc... Besides I mode defaults to sport when the throttle position is WOT for more than 2 seconds.
I have read the debates versus open source and the COBB, I am happy with the AP and would do it the same way if I was starting over.
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mekilljoydammit
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Wisconsin
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| 05-24-2012 10:19 AM |
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Bored-at-work questions. Any thought on the Cobb vs. say the Invidia divorced style dealie? Both investment cast entrances, both available catted. Just asking because I'm sitting here waffling between the two. What bugs me about the transition to kill boost creep dealie is that intuitively, it seems like it's making backpressure on the turbine side to do that. But I dunno, probably overthinking for an EJ205.
Any thoughts on what you're doing for dampers? Curious is all. |
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urbanjacup
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| 05-24-2012 12:45 PM |
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Posted By Wes Dumalski on 05-24-2012 10:19 AM
The eventual goal is 400WHP but that will take some time. The power for now is usable and honestly the rest of the car has larger shortcomings to deal with!
Steering feel needs to be addressed as well as dampers, sway bars, and the rest of the bushings. Brakes need attention as I do not liek the lack of initial bite at all.
Grant, just because I want the car to have a decent stereo it will not involve huge subwoofer boxes and the like. As an old IASCA and USAC competitor I will focus on using quality components up front in an optimized install without adding a lot of weight. I am confident any weight added will be offset by savings elsewhere.
Urban I chose the COBB because of the cast construction. I did not want a divorced setup because of the tubular construction, I was eluding to this in the article but did not specifically mention the divorced term. I was trying ti imply that but perhaps I should edit it for clarification. Project 200SX was a car that I built and time trialed with many exhaust variants including an open dump under the car after the turbo. I HATE loud exhausts on anything but a race car, the COBB is killer quite honestly. Boost creep can be introduced in multiple ways but two of the best companies used the transition to counter this. The design works.
Just re-used the OEM heat shield. It provides nice tight coverage of the bellmouth and works just fine. I could go with the COBB piece and perhaps I will in time, but for now the OEM is just fine. No intake yet as we have other plans for intercooler and such and did not want to install something we would just wind up taking out.
What do you mean by how it works with SI drive? There is only 1 map, SI drive simply limits Throttle Position. You cannot tune separate MAPS for I etc... Besides I mode defaults to sport when the throttle position is WOT for more than 2 seconds.
I have read the debates versus open source and the COBB, I am happy with the AP and would do it the same way if I was starting over.
http://blogs.cobbtuning.com/2011/04...-2010-sti/ I was finally able to search and found the above link, however once again I was misinformed...it appears this is only good on stock intake/stage 1OTS...I would consider trying this after just installing a COBB AP, however I have 2011and will not be using the stock air box...obviously you are sticking with your protune, as for me this will not apply... Maybe I'll make another thread so I don't take your project OT, but I am really interested in learning safe alternatives to the Cobb AP...I heard there was poor support for EcuTek, also was considering using Tactrix or others for OS...
Looking at engine pitch mount and some tranny bushing/mounts.... Best of luck Wes...
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Wes
MotoIQ Staff
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Posts:145
Wisconsin
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| 05-24-2012 10:01 PM |
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Posted By Kenku on 05-24-2012 12:19 PM
Bored-at-work questions. Any thought on the Cobb vs. say the Invidia divorced style dealie? Both investment cast entrances, both available catted. Just asking because I'm sitting here waffling between the two. What bugs me about the transition to kill boost creep dealie is that intuitively, it seems like it's making backpressure on the turbine side to do that. But I dunno, probably overthinking for an EJ205.
Any thoughts on what you're doing for dampers? Curious is all.
Not sold on the invidia piece based on my research. Have not seen material details for the down pipe or specifications of the cat. I also prefer the cat placement on the COBB. My opinion is that the COBB is the superior piece for the same or less money. The transition is of no significance unless your goal is to make 500+WHP in which case you likely wouldn't be using these parts. Crawford does the same thing with their DP...
Lots of thoughts on dampers and research being done. KW, Cusco, Ohlins, AST and few other's. Time will tell what suits our car. |
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mekilljoydammit
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| 05-25-2012 05:29 AM |
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Yeah, I suppose that's a fair point on the Cobb vs. the Invidia downpipe, and also on the transition. It's not like I'm planning on going over (at bleeding edge maximum if I have spare cash to dump into it) 300whp ever anyway; it's a DD. And maybe it should be a hint to me when the phrase "okay, after I'd get the Invidia DP, I just have to drill a hole in the bellmouth, mill a flat, and TIG weld an O2 bung in..." comes up with one of the options. It was to me a tossup between Invidia DP and Q300 catback, or Cobb and Borla Hush catback... with stock catback in there as an intermediate step either way.
Look forwards to seeing what you do with the thing. Also, you're not going to Blackhawk this weekend are you? Just noticed the 'Wisconsin' location... |
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Wes
MotoIQ Staff
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Wisconsin
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| 05-25-2012 06:43 PM |
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Not going to Blackhawk this weekend, but I am in Kenosha county so it IS close. Where in WI are you?
Honestly I have been paying a lot of attention to the Subaru products, and there IS a LOT of stuff out there, I think MUCH of it is intermediate in quality. Going to meets and getting involved in the local community and I am largely unimpressed by a lot of the parts I have seen so far. When I see it in person and get a chance to analyze the design, material selection and fitment I think that COBB offers a superior product in most cases and an equal product in cases of other top notch companies.
When I cannot go to a companies web-site and read about material's and fabrication processes used, I tend to shy away. If they did things right they will be voicing it. |
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mekilljoydammit
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Wisconsin
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| 05-25-2012 08:37 PM |
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I'm in the Waukesha area; commute to Milwaukee for work. Just heading out to the track and got to wondering.
I guess the Subaru parts thing is just weirding me out a bit. I'm coming to this from building roadrace 1st gen RX-7s for the last ten years, where there's damn near no aftermarket whatsoever... it's either "buy part intended for street use and hope it works", "modify or make something yourself" or "pay huge amounts of money to have someone else make it". Whereas on the Subaru, there's piles of seemingly almost identical versions of any given upgradeable part. So strange. |
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urbanjacup
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| 09-13-2012 01:22 PM |
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Posted By Wes Dumalski on 05-24-2012 10:19 AM
What do you mean by how it works with SI drive? There is only 1 map, SI drive simply limits Throttle Position. You cannot tune separate MAPS for I etc... Besides I mode defaults to sport when the throttle position is WOT for more than 2 seconds.
I have read the debates versus open source and the COBB, I am happy with the AP and would do it the same way if I was starting over.
I decided to go with AP also, its just so convenient...
Wes, I was right the first time...currently running Cobb OTS Stage 2, specific map is listed below (see bold print):
Stage2+AEM 93 v300 Boost Select - Intended for 2008-2011 Subaru Impreza WRX STI vehicles with AEM Cold
Air Cold Air Intake System, and a turbo-back exhaust system with high-flow catalytic converter running 93 or 94
octane petrol. Boost Targets: ~19.5psi (S Sharp) or 16 psi (S) peak boost pressure tapering down to ~15 psi by
the 7000 RPM redline, +/- 1.0 psi.
I thought it would be interesting if someone could explain how Cobb manipulates peak boost pressure utilizing SI drive in S# (sport sharp) and S (sport) modes...I've yet to really find an explanation to this...or if I am misinterpreting something, etc...
Currenlty datalogging to see if I'll be needing to switch to HWG or LWG map...
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urbanjacup
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| 09-18-2012 09:05 AM |
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The ECU uses a 3d boost targets table (requested torque and RPM). Generally, the higher the requested torque, the higher the boost target. With RPM, the boost target will increase as RPM increases and then gradually taper down at higher RPM. With the factory ECU, there is no difference between S and S# at WOT as far as the boost target is concerned. The difference is going to be the throttle response at less than WOT. For our boost select maps, we take this a step further by allowing for different WOT boost targets between S and S# by manipulating the boost targets table in a specific way. So, with our boost select maps, S and S# not only impact throttle response, but also your WOT boost target.
Bill @ Cobb
Subaru ECU Specialist |
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halbritt
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| 09-22-2012 01:12 PM |
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Interesting thread.
Cobb does a pretty good job with OTS maps and features like this. They have a broad customer base and their AP products is plug and play, which is great. That said, there's nothing inherently wrong with open-source tuning. For DIY types, I'd actually encourage it. I have a tactrix and created the "stage 1" tune that I'm running on my car (2008 WRX) presently. I've re-flashed it a couple dozen times, probably and have never had a problem with it locking up. There's some interesting stuff going on in the opensource world, launch control, anti-lag, speed-density/map, etc. There's even separate boost maps per gear, which is something I want to try for autocross.
Obviously, there's more risk going with something that's less well-supported than the Cobb parts, but I don't think that risk is excessive. |
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Wes
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Wisconsin
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| 11-13-2012 06:59 PM |
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The COBB stuff just works really damn well. The price point might be slightly higher than some of the cheaper options but you get what you pay for. The damn SF intake and airbox made 20 WHP and 30 lb ft on our latest tune. Now making 301hp 359tq
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