spdracerut
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| 11-29-2011 10:42 PM |
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I'll bet money the next STI will be based on the BRZ. There are too many signs.
1. Word that the next STI will not be based on the Impreza platform.
I spoke with a Subaru Product Development engineer at SEMA and mentioned this to him. Then I started hypothesizing, if the STI is not limited to the Impreza 4-door sedan, why not make it a 2-door? He just sorta nodded, as if to say, "you're correct in that there's nothing saying it has to be based on a 4-door". This continued with making it RWD as opposed to AWD.
2. Subaru showed the BRZ STI Concept at the LA autoshow
3. Now this: BRZ GT300 car to race in Super GT.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/29/...n-supergt/
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spdracerut
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| 11-30-2011 08:22 AM |
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Just to add a little more..... check out the front ends of the BRZ as compared to the 86. Check out how much bigger the front bumper opening is on the BRZ as compared to the 86. Also, currently the BRZ opening is over a third blocked off. So, in going turbo, they'd open up a lot of that area to provide more cooling for the increased power output of a STI turbo version.
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Doctor Bruce
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| 11-30-2011 09:37 AM |
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Khiem - Seems like we both visit the same non-Motoiq automotive websites! Your STI theory has a lot of validity to it but I'm suprised you didn't show the picture of the BRZ STI concept. According to its run down, aero, tire/wheel, brakes, etc. were improved but NO turbo yet. I found that last particular detail fascinating but you do bring up a great point that the bumper inlet looks more suited for turbo power. I've got to think the aftermarket guys are aching to pull this thing apart, LC pistons, new rods and get some boost on these things! |
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spdracerut
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| 11-30-2011 10:36 AM |
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Well.... I have two more little bits of 'inside info' that leads me to believe the STI will be BRZ based and turbo, but I can't divulge those sources.
But based on all the information readily available, it's quite logical. Why make the next STI a 4-door sedan when you have a bitchin lightweight coupe to play with?
Check out the front end of the GT300 car, it has a partion that looks like it probably directs air to a V-mount intercooler with that air flow being vented out the hood. |
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burninator
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| 12-01-2011 10:49 AM |
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If the STi went 2 door and rwd it would loose a lot of it's appeal to many people. The fact that it's a 4 (or 5) door combined with it's awd and turbo power make it the practical fast car of choice for many people. They can make it turbo, but then it's still short 2 of the 3 best things about it. Personally, I really hope this isn't the way they plan to go with it. |
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burninator
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| 12-01-2011 10:57 AM |
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To be clear, I think the BRZ is a cool car and a turbo version would be really cool. But I'm hoping they can do multiple models with STi power like Dodge does with it's SRT models.
Disclaimer: I race a Datsun, but I daily drive an Outback XT (still turbo and has a 5-speed) because of it's practicality and fun. |
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spdracerut
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| 12-01-2011 12:04 PM |
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Posted By Burninator on 12-01-2011 12:49 PM
If the STi went 2 door and rwd it would loose a lot of it's appeal to many people. The fact that it's a 4 (or 5) door combined with it's awd and turbo power make it the practical fast car of choice for many people. They can make it turbo, but then it's still short 2 of the 3 best things about it. Personally, I really hope this isn't the way they plan to go with it.
But that's what the next Legacy GT is for  A relatively high percentage of STI and Evo owners mod them with some of them taking them to the point of being impractical. Like harness bars which eliminate the useage of the back seat. So now, there can be the pracitcal, yet fun Legacy GT with turbo and AWD, and then the more hardcore performance oriented car being a BRZ STI.
With the Evo X probably turning into a hybrid, I can see a BRZ STI winning over some former Evo owners. Figure a US spec BRZ to weigh 2800 lbs. Make a STI version with a turbo, and that bumps the weight up to 2850 or so. RWD, 2850 lbs, 300hp, 2+2, sure does sound like a modern Silvia 
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x01011000x
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| 12-04-2011 02:23 AM |
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I hope they keep an AWD turbo STi car (not a watered down Legacy STi, but S402 on the other hand...) and add the BRZ STi. There are multiple STi models in the rest of the world, and like you said, BRZ is ripe for the treatment. However, given Subaru's disappointing upkeep of the USDM STi from 2004-2011, do you really think they are going to put a turbo in the BRZ? It just seems like the rest of the market caught up or surpassed the STi as it sat on its laurels. Sure, some improvements were made and it is a better all around package today, but it does not dominate its price category (or that of cars two categories above it) like it and the Evo did when they came out. At least the Evo now has an interesting transmission if you wanted to keep stock power levels.
Maybe I am jaded after years of waiting for Subaru's next big move with the STi and not seeing anything on our shores. That said I would still only consider the WRX STi as my choice of car under $40k.
As I said on another forum, if there was a forced induction BRZ STi, it would have to be able to out perform the TT-RS and Exige for me to consider it. I never bought Subaru's to compete with their peers, I buy them to own their peers and challenge cars costing almost twice as much. I am just one person, but according to Tanner Foust I am the Subaru market, lol.
I do hope you're right on the direction for STi treatment for the BRZ. I just hope Subaru does not disappoint. |
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pistonhead
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| 12-05-2011 01:56 AM |
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x01, I'm curious what you think does dominate it's price category because a year ago I read an article that named the WRX the second fastest car for under 30K, the only thing above it was a Mustang GT and I'd say that the WRX is a better car all around even if it can't quite keep up in a straight line (when it's dry). The Mazdaspeed3 is in the same ballpark but when given the choice of AWD or FWD do you really choose FWD?
Granted the STi is further upmarket but what is upmarket to compete with and "dominate" it? Porsche Boxster? BMW 1 series? Charger SRT-8? Nissan 370Z? I just don't see how disappointing it's upkeep is. More is always welcome but some manufacturers will use the same engine at around the same output on the same or similar cars for over a decade and don't even get me started on transmissions, the length of time that the T5 was available in the mustang is just absurd (even if the later half of that time was on the lesser V6 model). The STi never needed a big move, if they made any big moves with it they'd have to raise the price tag accordingly, the aftermarket is more than happy to take over where Subaru left off though, as far as the UK versions oh well we didn't get the Evo FQ400 either for whatever reason...probably a lack of interest. |
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Doctor Bruce
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| 12-05-2011 02:51 PM |
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Khiem - I don't know how to post clips here, at least not with my phone, but you've got to post the youtube clip of the GT300 BRZ here or even front page it if Mike will let you! I've never heard a Subaru sound that good! Aural bliss :-) |
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x01011000x
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| 12-08-2011 09:27 PM |
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pistonhead,
I was mainly speaking of the USDM STi. It's great that the Mustang GT could now be considered on par with an STi, I just wish Subaru had continued raising the bar so it never happened. They still have soft rubber 'gravel' bushings in the STi when they have an almost complete Group N spec bushing set they could use. They still have a higher steering rack ratio than the USDM Evo, even though the Spec C has a 13:1 available. The 'feel' of a stock STi just seems to be lacking, when they have had almost 10 years to incorporate some of these parts into the stock car. Still no USDM Recaros as well, another thing the Evo was able to do.
I guess I am just used to such a large spread, like when comparing vehicles on the market in 2002 or 2004. The WRX, and then STi, had a larger gap. Now days, too many cars a nipping at their heels for a fan boy such as myself to allow. You're right, I think dominate was too strong of a word for me to use and as an all around car, it is still had to beat the STi in its category.
Things are looking up though. Looks like the FA20 is getting a turbo version. No confirmation on if it will be in the BRZ or WRX though yet. |
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Doctor Bruce
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speedball3
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| 12-13-2011 10:56 AM |
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x01,
When the WRX and STI came to the USDM, there was nothing to touch them. Think of it...sport compacts in 2002, there was the Civic Si hatchback and the Scion tC. Compared to the STI, even BMWs were underpowered. Nothing came close to WRX/STI levels of bang for buck. But then, things changed and other manufactorers improved their engines/chassis/overall packages. Now BMWs make 300hp+ while making decent mpg's, while the STI stays at 300hp/300tq. But looking at the STI history, should we be surprised? The STI/Evo battle has nearly always had their power outputs pegged at 276hp or there-abouts (granted a lot of that was due to Japan's "gentlemen agreement" of limiting power to 276, IIRC). The lack of engine progress is disappointing (especially post-07), for sure, but considering the history of similar hp numbers, should we be surprised?
As for the BRZ STI, I certainly hope it will become an STI model (of many), not THE STI model. I agree that the main appeal of the current and past STIs is the unique mix of fun and practical. I will be disappointed if the BRZ becomes the main underpinnings for the next WRX and STI.
I did see a video of the BRZ GT300 race car, and it sounded SWEET. I'm not familiar w/the regulations of the SuperGT series though... is it spec engine and/or spec frame rules? I wasn't 100% convinced I was hearing a real boxer, despite the "proud of BOXER" logo. |
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spdracerut
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| 12-13-2011 10:25 PM |
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From what I've read, the GT300 car is using the older EJ20 from previous years. |
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yo vanilla
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| 01-22-2012 06:38 AM |
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speedball beat me to it, but yes it won't be THE sti. just A sti. sti is a trim level, not a model. |
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Toms
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Toms
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| 03-24-2012 06:36 AM |
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What are your thoughts on the BRZ/FRS pricing? Is it reasonable by today's standards? |
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urbanjacup
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