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New to mitsubishi.... 4g63/4G64 turbo question
Last Post 07-03-2010 02:36 PM by Laurence. 26 Replies.
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ericUser is Offline
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Eric Hsu

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05-11-2010 04:48 PM  
That's strange. I've seen the exact opposite in regards to rockers: I've had EVO rockers crack and fail before Eclipse rockers. I am not sure what kind of cams you guys run, but it might be an issue with cam lobe/valve acceleration, valve train mass, RPM and spring force that could be causing the Eclipse rockers to fail. The issue may coincidentally have been fixed with the installation of EVO rockers and valve train. In the 4G engines I run, the valve spring utilization were calculated to run at at exactly 80% of spring's capacity so I definitely do not have any motion or surge issues. I have seen the stamped steel EVO rockers fail numerous times.

Those are good points about the 2.3L vs 350hp engine though. I've only ever built 2x 2.3Ls in the past and never had the issues you mention, but I can certainly see those issues arise in a long stroke engine with plenty of vibration and mediocre parts. The engines I built live in 400 and 450whp street cars, but I have only used the expensive stuff: custom Mahle pistons and Carrillo rods. I did use the OE Hyundai 6 bolt cranks however which haven't cracked and I have retained the balance shafts in both engines.
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Street Surgeon

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05-12-2010 04:00 PM  
It seems there are answers to many of the 2.3l quircks.

Flywheel bolts backing out? Make sure the rotating assy is balanced, run a good damper (ATI or other), and either use safety wire or nordlock washers to lock it down. The balance shafts are more for the "feel" of the motor (as I'm sure you already know) and don't have anything to do with the harmonics.

Cranks cracking? Mostly linked to the weaker 6-bolt hyundai cranks in 500 to 600whp cars. These were in cars with crower rods, and ross pistons. The answer was to use a nicer crank and other possible fixes include running a 6-bolt girdle etc. The strokers also tend to beat up bearings a little so running the ACL trimetals with an extra thousandth of clearance goes a looooooong way! Some people even groove the "other half" of the acl bearings to increase oil flow to the journal of the crank.

As far as the rockers yes, a lot of people were using the garbage BC cams and springs (blah), I haven't had any issues with my FP and GSC cams however. In the different motors I used Ferrea duals, Supertech duals, and the stock evo springs for the GSC S1's.

Ugh, I'm rambling. Good to know though, glad I held on to my old rockers just in case!
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Eric Hsu

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05-13-2010 07:51 AM  
I'm not sure why anybody would use a factory 100mm crank with very little crankpin overlap in a 500-600whp engine, but that is exactly why they failed. Its not because they are cheap OE Hyundai cranks. Its because they are factory forgings that were never remotely designed for that kind of power. But then again we are talking about the DSM crowd... Anyhow the shorter the stroke of a crank, the stronger the inherent design because of the crankpin's overlap with the main journals. This is why a stock 86mm 2JZ or a 73.7mm RB26 crank can do 1000whp or a 2.0L 87mm 4G63 stock crank can do 600whp. Any 100mm OEM crank has no business in a 600whp engine.

I'm rambling too...
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Street Surgeon

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05-13-2010 04:29 PM  

Most of the people were using the factory Hyundai 2.4l and Mitsu G4CS cranks because (at the time) there were no other alternatives on the market plain and simple. Only fairly recently have nice aftermarket cranks started to pop up here and there! There are quite a few successful OEM 100mm cranks doing just fine out there, but comparatively speaking they're definitely more prone to crack I highly doubt 2JZ cranks were designed to handle 1000whp, or stock 4G63 cranks to 6-700whp respectively. It's tough to justify a $1600+ crank though on an old $3400.00 car

 

It's interesting to note that the 2G 7-bolt 2.4l cranks and 2.3l (7-bolt strokers) seem to not really have this problem at all though, some speculate that it's because of the factory girdle and revised block design etc. Those that choose to run the 6-bolt 2.4l cranks and also run something like Kiggly's girdle seem to have way, way better luck. Alright, back to my cave!

 

 

ericUser is Offline
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Eric Hsu

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05-19-2010 11:59 PM  
Yeah the filet/radius area behind the 7 bolt cranks are beefier because the crankpin journals are narrower on the 2G and newer cranks. That's probably why they don't crack.

The 2J and RB cranks have larger diameter main and crankpin journals which gives the cranks more overlap and therefore they are inherently stronger. The 4G has smallerdiameter mains and crankpins so they have less overlap to begin with.
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JustinP10

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07-01-2010 08:04 AM  
So this project kinda took a weird turn... A friend of mine who runs a local shop wants to experiment a bit and I agreed to be the guinea pig.

He wants to create a manifold that'll allow twin scroll evo turbos to bolt up to a dsm, without all the modifications needed when you run an evo turbo/evo manifold setup. The manifold's not going to be ebay crap cheap, but it'll allow for inexpensive evo turbos to become a bolt on option, which should help keep the overall cost from being too crazy, yet still allow big power potential if you want to spend more initially, or upgrade to an fp red, fp black, etc... down the road.

I picked up a low mileage evo9 turbo and i'm just waiting on the fabricator to take all the measurements and fab up the manifold.
LaurenceUser is Offline
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Laurence

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07-03-2010 02:36 PM  

Tell him to save his money and time on experimenting. Bottom line; the Evo IX turbo is just a big 16g. Big 16g's have been bolted on to DSM's for years and have made the same 350 hp with the stock DSM manifold. And there's already a gang of bigger bolt on turbos for big power too; 18g, 20g, Green, Bastard, Frankensteins...

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