Posted By spdracerut on 09-11-2009 04:00 PM
Project Scion tC should be out there.

Those boys didnt play nice and Greg DQ'd em I believe.   BTW, who is this?!

 

car is under going some race car prep 101.... less weight, more power via 2 extra cylinders, and some tweaks here and there

More Pics?? Which class?

Looks like we may play in ST2 as well as AI.

 

 

 

It's nothing special, but it sure is fun. Car is getting a 3.5 V-6 and a 350Z ecu so I can tune w/ my laptop. Motor is torn down for rings, bearings, vq35hr valve springs, HR headgaskets, HR oil pump, ARP rod bolts, cooling passage modifications, and some mild pocket porting, We're re-doing the car to run TTC/PTC for this season.

Wow, lots of work going on. Thanks for the pics

scored a set of cams from a VQ35 revup motor for $200. Waiting on a thrust washer and a bearing or two before the motor goes back together with the rest of the upgrades.

I foresee a lot of detuning on the dyno to meet the HP/Wt limits. Or we might just say screw it and run a higher class. The little 225 tires would be hating life.

Posted By Big J on 02-06-2010 11:03 AM
scored a set of cams from a VQ35 revup motor for $200. Waiting on a thrust washer and a bearing or two before the motor goes back together with the rest of the upgrades.

I foresee a lot of detuning on the dyno to meet the HP/Wt limits. Or we might just say screw it and run a higher class. The little 225 tires would be hating life.

you have to run 225s...what if you go up a class?
 

Posted By urbanjacup on 02-06-2010 02:17 PM

Posted By Big J on 02-06-2010 11:03 AM
scored a set of cams from a VQ35 revup motor for $200. Waiting on a thrust washer and a bearing or two before the motor goes back together with the rest of the upgrades.

I foresee a lot of detuning on the dyno to meet the HP/Wt limits. Or we might just say screw it and run a higher class. The little 225 tires would be hating life.

you have to run 225s...what if you go up a class?
 

 

NASA is class based, classes are points based with XX total points putting you in a certain class. Each base class has a max tire width for which no points are assessed. If you run under the max for your class you get points back, over, you have to add points to you mod total. We have about  $4,000 worth of 225 R6 DOT slicks we won last season with the Hoosier contengiency program, unless it's a matter of winning or loosing, we're not going to put up the $$$ to run a new size tire before we go through what we have, In TTE we were taking 3 points for running a 225, 215 was our max for our base class, with the swap we get a TTC base classing, which is a 245 or 255 max witdh, so now we'll get points back for running a 225. We have about 3-4 sets of 225s.

 

The first really big measuring stick for where the new drivetrain puts us will be when we take the car to Carolina Motorsports Park. Last time out we reset the tracjk record (for our class), which was our old record from the time before we were out. We put a full 4 seconds on our old record with a 1:50.17. If we run a 1:45-1:46 I'll be happy and we'll tweak the car from there. Out old times from TTE were already on par with the TTC/TTB class cars, so picking up 4-5 more seconds and we'll dominate.

 

We've got a QR25 in the works that should put us pretty close to the 257whp we're allowed for TTC, the VQ was the quick and easy ticket to TTC while we work on a QR setup.

 

If Joe likes the car w/ the VQ, we may keep the VQ around a drop a turbo on it and try our hands in some redline events. Joe's times in his old EVO VIII are comprarable to some of the times AWD cars are running in Redline at the same tracks.

Posted By Big J on 02-06-2010 02:52 PM

Posted By urbanjacup on 02-06-2010 02:17 PM

Posted By Big J on 02-06-2010 11:03 AM
scored a set of cams from a VQ35 revup motor for $200. Waiting on a thrust washer and a bearing or two before the motor goes back together with the rest of the upgrades.

I foresee a lot of detuning on the dyno to meet the HP/Wt limits. Or we might just say screw it and run a higher class. The little 225 tires would be hating life.

you have to run 225s...what if you go up a class?
 

 

NASA is class based, classes are points based with XX total points putting you in a certain class. Each base class has a max tire width for which no points are assessed. If you run under the max for your class you get points back, over, you have to add points to you mod total. We have about  $4,000 worth of 225 R6 DOT slicks we won last season with the Hoosier contengiency program, unless it's a matter of winning or loosing, we're not going to put up the $$$ to run a new size tire before we go through what we have, In TTE we were taking 3 points for running a 225, 215 was our max for our base class, with the swap we get a TTC base classing, which is a 245 or 255 max witdh, so now we'll get points back for running a 225. We have about 3-4 sets of 225s.

 

The first really big measuring stick for where the new drivetrain puts us will be when we take the car to Carolina Motorsports Park. Last time out we reset the tracjk record (for our class), which was our old record from the time before we were out. We put a full 4 seconds on our old record with a 1:50.17. If we run a 1:45-1:46 I'll be happy and we'll tweak the car from there. Out old times from TTE were already on par with the TTC/TTB class cars, so picking up 4-5 more seconds and we'll dominate.

 

We've got a QR25 in the works that should put us pretty close to the 257whp we're allowed for TTC, the VQ was the quick and easy ticket to TTC while we work on a QR setup.

 

If Joe likes the car w/ the VQ, we may keep the VQ around a drop a turbo on it and try our hands in some redline events. Joe's times in his old EVO VIII are comprarable to some of the times AWD cars are running in Redline at the same tracks.

 

great info...definitely gives me a lot perspective on NASA and how you're trying to get things done...its seems you are covering all aspects...so you expect/hoping to pick up 4-5 seconds with the new drivetrain...thats pretty damn good...What sort of upgade did go with there? 

fyi, I remember the RTR car being at 253hp and 209tq @ around 2400lbs and I am positive they had to run 225/45 17s on Toyo T1-S tires (required back then in the SCCA Touring series)...so running the Hoosier 225 40 17 has to make up for some nice handling just comparing both racecars...

What  weight are you guys currently at or need to be at?

Once again, I have a lot of respect and admiration for what you and Joe are trying to accomplish...I would love to see guys run time attack...seems like you guys make a great team...keep us updated, I keep checking the other boards and look forward to some updated blogs...really interested in how far you can take that supsension...from what I read and see on youtube, he pushes the car beyond its limits...Keep up the great driving Joe!

This is a no frills, limited budget, garage build race car/team. I think a big misconception is that you have to spend big $$$ to put together a competitive car, I know for a long time that what I though was required, I've learned a lot. I'm not a driver, never put in the seat time to learn, I turn wrenches.

We did so well last year crushing the competition that NASA raised the min comp weight to 2800lbs on B15 SE-Rs and Spec Vs. We were at 2730 last year. Joe is a phenomenal driver and OK with a wrench. I'm the other way around. We're allowed up to 250lbs of ballast to keep the car @ the minimum weight. Because of that we're stripping the car down as low as we can get it and then adding weight to get it back up the the min comp weight. We're stripping weight from the top down and from the front back. The ballast will go as low as we can get it in the car and as close to the middle of the car as we can. This will lower the center of gravity, and because of that, even w/o correcting the roll centers, it will change the distance of the roll centers to the center of gravity (CoG) and as such the roll couple. Which is the leverage arm determined by the distance of the CoG from the roll centers. That will dramatically help body roll in the corners and getting the front to rear wt balance close to how it was with the QR in it, if not better. We can pull the ballast for drag racing and other events. A little tweak here, and a little tweak there, that's how we picked up 4 seconds at CMP w/o anymore power, little tweaks, most of them free, just making the most of what we have. That's my job, figuring out how to make the car better, Joe's job is to go fast. @ CMP we were 8-9 seconds out in front of every other car in out class and pacing with the TTC and TTB cars. So with an extra 80hp/tq and we'll be out ahead of what ever class we end up in.

How many points is the VQ going to count as? I think you will be able to ballast and more than make up for the engine weight and get the percentages pretty good. Is Greg Greenbalm in the Turbo Neon still in TTC?

swaps are assigned a new base class. An SE-R is a base TTF + 7, a Spec V is TTF + 14 (handicapped out of the hole). We'll get a new base class of TTC, w/ no points assessed for any engine mods, but we are limited to 257whp and a wt of 2800. Plan is to build the motor and then taper TQ off with tuning to keep Tq up and HP under 257. We'll have 20 points to play w/ and stay in C.



We pulled all the AC/heater stuff from behind the dash finally, window motors are comming out, once the drive train goes in the car will hit the corner weights and we'll look at the old numbers and see where we're at w/ the new stuff. I should be able to get the motor 3-4" lower in the chassis and back about an inch w/o cutting stuff up.

Greg is running TTB/PTB in the Neon.

Posted By Big J on 02-07-2010 05:30 PM
This is a no frills, limited budget, garage build race car/team. I think a big misconception is that you have to spend big $$$ to put together a competitive car, I know for a long time that what I though was required, I've learned a lot. I'm not a driver, never put in the seat time to learn, I turn wrenches.

We did so well last year crushing the competition that NASA raised the min comp weight to 2800lbs on B15 SE-Rs and Spec Vs. We were at 2730 last year. Joe is a phenomenal driver and OK with a wrench. I'm the other way around. We're allowed up to 250lbs of ballast to keep the car @ the minimum weight. Because of that we're stripping the car down as low as we can get it and then adding weight to get it back up the the min comp weight. We're stripping weight from the top down and from the front back. The ballast will go as low as we can get it in the car and as close to the middle of the car as we can. This will lower the center of gravity, and because of that, even w/o correcting the roll centers, it will change the distance of the roll centers to the center of gravity (CoG) and as such the roll couple. Which is the leverage arm determined by the distance of the CoG from the roll centers. That will dramatically help body roll in the corners and getting the front to rear wt balance close to how it was with the QR in it, if not better. We can pull the ballast for drag racing and other events. A little tweak here, and a little tweak there, that's how we picked up 4 seconds at CMP w/o anymore power, little tweaks, most of them free, just making the most of what we have. That's my job, figuring out how to make the car better, Joe's job is to go fast. @ CMP we were 8-9 seconds out in front of every other car in out class and pacing with the TTC and TTB cars. So with an extra 80hp/tq and we'll be out ahead of what ever class we end up in.

yeh you just have to someone like yourself who can improvise really well with the setup you have...
 

It helps to be able to McGuyver some stuff, but the desired result is based on improving some known, established, and/or proven theory or principal. The more info you can cram in your head pertaining to whatever it is you are wanting to improve, the easier it is to do it and not fuck it up.

Body roll............ roll resistance, roll coupling, CoG, total weight, sway bars, springs, all of these things are intimately related........ if you understand how they are related, and how changing one does what, you can figure out which are feasible for you to do based on time, budget, etc.

Mike posted a really good real world example of car dynamics by using a dumbell as a tangible thing to play with. If you have a 10 lb dumbbell and you hold in your hand let it hang, and then you turn your wrist back and forth, the dumbbell is hard to get to change directions, and requires a good bit of force accelerate and slow down, even if you have to keep the weight distribution at the ends but you lower the total weight, it gets easier. Try it with a 5lb dumbbell and you'll see. If you could move all the weight toward the center of the dumbell, even with a higher total weight, the effort required to start the twist and stop the twist would be noticeably less. In a car the thing starting and stopping these twists is the driver, the tires are helping the driver. That being said the car is only going to be as good as the driver, that's why I don't drive.

that example is effectively describing yaw, there is also pitch and roll, depending on what axis you are dealing with. CoG is the "center" or balance point, the "roll center" is where the mass pivots or where movement occurs, you throw roll center and CoG together and stir and i think you get "instant center" which I think is a force vector.

The cost of racing is inversely proportional to the amount of knowledge you have.... to a point.

My only concern with the car for next season is the cage. Time Trial rules don't require a cage, Pro Touring does. Either way the car as it sits it's way too fast to not have a real cage. It has a bolt in 4 point, but that's like using Saran wrap as a prophylactic.

11:1 piston are in the mail.

Wiseco to the rescue. Thanks to Brian and Wiseco for helping us out.

Posted By Big J on 02-09-2010 01:25 PM
My only concern with the car for next season is the cage. Time Trial rules don't require a cage, Pro Touring does. Either way the car as it sits it's way too fast to not have a real cage. It has a bolt in 4 point, but that's like using Saran wrap as a prophylactic.

 

Given where you are going with this car, its really time to upgrade your safety systems. Real cage, real fire system.

wiring is all that's really left to get it running. I stripped down the harness and de-pinned all the unnecessary wires from the ECU connector.

I think I have the Swine flu, so progress stopped after Monday. All most done. I'm really excited about 350z ecu and being able to tune real time w/ my laptop.

So far the build is: 11:1 compression, revup cams, revup springs, revup oil pump, ACL bearings, tunable ECU.