10

Christa adds some Power Plus top lube to a full tank of E85 in Project STI. We were a bit worried about Project STI because it has iron armature Injector Dynamics 1000cc injectors and the Power Plus lube claims to protect against corrosion, a claim that was backed up by Methanol users in the rating area on their web site. 

We found that there are a number of top lubes made for alcohol on the market. No need to run two stroke oil made for gasoline. Top lubes are usually made of a castor oil derivative, if you run go karts you know that this works well with both gasoline and alcohol. Some lubes are also made of PAO, an alcohol derived synthetic oil. VP, Kloz, Pro-Tuff, Redline and others all make alcohol top lubes along these lines. 

 

Power Plus top lube claims to protect pumps, injectors, cylinder walls, valves from wear, scuffing, and corrosion. Power Plus is also claimed to be compatible with gasoline, diesel fuel ,or any mixture of the three. It is also safe for O2 sensors and catalytic converters.

To test a top lube, we chose Power Pluses product. When using Power Plus top lube, we mixed it at 2 oz per tank full on a street car and one bottle per 55-gallon drum on our competition drift car. This equates to about a 440:1 mixing ratio. When handling the fuel, we noticed that it went from having a dry rubbing alcohol feel to an oily slippery feel that was very noticeable. Although this isn't a very scientific evaluation, it was very obvious that the fuel was much more slippery even at these very diluted ratios. 

On Project STI the injectors and fuel pump went from being loud with E85 to very quiet. The injectors went from being so noisy that once we briefly thought we had a spun rod bearing to way quieter than gasoline operation.

We think that running the Top Lube will help extend parts' lives greatly, and we have also started to use it in our FD endeavors. Some direct injection engines also have issues with the high-pressure fuel pump when running E85. We think that running top lube may help in this case.

Although is isn't a product test, this is documenting the start of a long-term experiment, and we will see how well Top Lube works in field use for preventing parts' failures and possibly extending engine life.

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Comments
Dusty Duster
Dusty Dusterlink
Friday, August 11, 2017 5:29 AM
Do you think there are any benefits to using this on a direct injection motor running E10 (standard "pump" gas)?
8695Beaters
8695Beaterslink
Friday, August 11, 2017 6:03 AM
It's amazing how Formula D is turning into sideways drag racing.
SM_Clay72
SM_Clay72link
Friday, August 11, 2017 7:32 AM
Any noticable smoke? Do you know how O2 sensor and catalytic converter safe this stuff is?

Dai's car was smoking pretty good at Evergreen, but i doubt it was from a 440:1 ratio with this.
SM_Clay72
SM_Clay72link
Friday, August 11, 2017 7:36 AM
Their website:

SAFE FOR INJECTORS, CARBURETORS, 02 SENSORS, AND CATALYTIC CONVERTERS

Goddamn I am good at research.
Crousti
Croustilink
Friday, August 11, 2017 8:16 AM
I have been using e85 for like 10 years in my ~300ish hp euro S13. injectors never failed. The pump failed twice (first time the pickup was clogged with grime, second time the fuel filter was clogged and the pump ended up forcing a lot).

Injectors are 1000cc ev14, same as the injector dynamics the subaru has i guess.

The car is used as an enthusiast street and track car. I never had any other e85 related problem, but it is not an e98 eating monster. Friend of mine with his 700hp-ish ca18det does not either, and we started using e85 at a similar time.

No sure the lube is that much needed unless going with a very high ethanol %age. I'll be very interested in your findings if you get data on wear on your STI though.

I will check the injectors if there is a way to dismantle them without breaking them next time the engine is out.
Mike Kojima
Mike Kojimalink
Friday, August 11, 2017 9:20 AM
Dai's car occasionally smokes for a few minutes after a hot restart due to oil getting past the turbine seal when the car sits. It clears out after a pass. Or it could have been when the power steering got hot and spit out of the reservoir getting on the turbine housing in practice, that was pretty smokey.
theneil
theneillink
Friday, August 11, 2017 9:24 AM
For the alchohol bikes they just purge the carbs with 87 octane, if there's no load it won't detonate.
Mike Kojima
Mike Kojimalink
Friday, August 11, 2017 10:54 AM
I don't think this stuff is needed for E10.
Randy
Randylink
Friday, August 11, 2017 2:30 PM
this is great, the high HP rotary engine on e85 users have been looking or a reliable lube for years ! one that will not separate and not leave any gummy deposits.

have you noticed if this leaves any gummy deposits in the cylinder?
Mike Kojima
Mike Kojimalink
Friday, August 11, 2017 3:46 PM
Randy, Able Ibarra uses Redline for Methanol two stroke oil
Mike Kojima
Mike Kojimalink
Friday, August 11, 2017 3:47 PM
Croustl, is E85 easy to get in Europe?
warmmilk
warmmilklink
Friday, August 11, 2017 4:31 PM
since you bring up Dai, he got screwed on his runs against Deane at Seattle, and so did his team mate (forget his name), and so did Aasbo

I don't really follow FD, but the Seattle event they judges were really biased towards Deane, makes me question his whole season. Not saying hes a bad driver or anything, he's a great driver, but a lot of the calls involving him are flat out BS (in Seattle)

/off topic rant
The Monkey in El Monte
The Monkey in El Montelink
Friday, August 11, 2017 5:37 PM
"Admittedly, none of us had much experience with alcohol before." <- Lies!
Mike Kojima
Mike Kojimalink
Friday, August 11, 2017 8:29 PM
He is a really good driver, he used to drive my car when he was 16.
Scott Helmer
Scott Helmerlink
Friday, August 11, 2017 10:08 PM
I wonder how that stuff would affect apex seals and such as an alternative to two stroke oil. Although that being said, I imagine it'd probably be prohibitively expensive in comparison, right?
Scott Helmer
Scott Helmerlink
Friday, August 11, 2017 10:09 PM
^ Forgot to note: on a purely street driven, basically stock vehicle.
Mike Kojima
Mike Kojimalink
Friday, August 11, 2017 10:31 PM
I don't think it's meant as a primary lube for a rotary. Redline Alcohol premix is the way to go.
Daemos
Daemoslink
Saturday, August 12, 2017 7:14 AM
I wonder what the difference between the Power Pluses and Redline product. Redline states not to use their product with catalytic converters but Power Pluses states theirs is safe for catalytic converters. Anyone know?

The Redline alcohol lube is the cheapest and readily available in Australia ($30AUD/bottle). VP's M2 is available here too but is quite expensive ($50 AUD/bottle) and the Power Pluses well is very expensive due to having to ship from North America.
Crousti
Croustilink
Saturday, August 12, 2017 9:15 AM
@mike i cannot say about Europe in general, but at least in France i never had a problem finding some for years. 10 years ago was not that easy though.

this website makes a google map of all known e85 pumps in France ( ~450 pumps for ~250.000 square miles, that is smaller than Texas but with 3 times the population). You can see it is quite available, except in place where nearly no people live.
http://ethanol-e85.fr/carte_stations_E85.html
shainiac
shainiaclink
Saturday, August 12, 2017 1:16 PM
But how does it smell!?
Mike Kojima
Mike Kojimalink
Saturday, August 12, 2017 11:40 PM
Like Grapes!
Mike Kojima
Mike Kojimalink
Saturday, August 12, 2017 11:42 PM
Crousti, I used to think E85 was an American thing to get rid of our government purchased wheat surplus but maybe not.
Funkzilluh
Funkzilluh link
Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:31 PM
Would you recommend using this with E90?
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